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DCS Spitfire - Refining your technique


DD_Fenrir

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Hello chaps and chapesses.

 

I'm making a series of DCS Spitfire videos to highlight some of the quirks, nuances and idiosynchrasies of operating the Spitfire in an effort to help operaters refine their technique and get the most out of the old girl.

 

Part 1. In the first we look at one of the most fundamental control surfaces - the elevator.

 

 

 

Part 2. In this episode Aileron & Rudder behaviour come under the scope.

 

 

 

Your feedback is most appreciated chums. Let me know if my efforts have been of any assistance.


Edited by DD_Fenrir
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Pretty cool vid, even though only partially relevant for me (Warthog + 30 cm extension here :D).

 

The diamond thing caught my attention, as I noticed the same symptom with my stick. I thought it was the result of my Warthog being a bit "tail heavy" (I crafted the extension from a slightly kinked/bent pipe and it likes to flop backwards a little), but I'm surprised it's not centered on your setup either. That's worth investigating further - the diamond in DCS corresponds to trimmed position of virtual stick, thus it should be offset in flight, but centered on the ground when there isn't any airflow over controls. If your stick is mechanically sound, why is the diamond offset then?

 

Will have to investigate on my PC, but can't force myself to fly 2.2 anymore with Super-Mario colours on Normandy map everywhere. Waiting for 2.5 tone corrections to arrive.

i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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Hi Art.

 

The diamond is offset on my end because the zero force point on my FFB2 is dynamic; as such with no virtual airload my stick was untensioned throughout that video.

 

The point was to show those FFB stick users that the virtual stick neutral point will in fact be actually be forward of what they would expect or be familiar with because of the inequal division of total stick travel between positive and negative elevator.

 

This is a good thing because it A) uses the ability of FFB sticks to dynamically alter the zero force point as with real aircraft and B) enables the full travel of the physical joystick to be used.

 

Lets say for example the division is 60/40 - that is, of the total fore and aft displacement available the forward 40% gives you down elevator and the aft 60% up elevator - this approximates the actaul elevator travel of most real aircraft.

 

Now that would mean that, given the neutral stick position is approximately perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of the airframe, you can pull the stick back further than you can push it forward.

 

The trouble is, no gaming joystick I have yet seen reflects this. If resting on a horizontal surface you have a 50/50 divison in stick travel between pitch up and pitch down and the vertical "centre" position.

 

In previous simulators, where the force neutral position was always tied to the zero position on the physical joystick, I suspect that they compressed that 60% rear elevator travel into the 50% available.

 

The knock on effect for the foward stick travel means that you effectively reach the limit of your virtual elevator travel before you reach the physical limit of the joystick throw. In this example, the last third of that foward stick movement would be doing nothing.

 

Ergo the full range of travel of the hardware joystick is not being used effectively, compressing the resolution further and adding to sensitivity.

 

The great thing about DCS is the fact that it uses the FFB properly. As you change speed the force neutral point on the hardware actually alters and once trimmed the stick stays in that physical position.

 

It also means that it allows us to access the full travel of the joystick, increasing the resolution and reducing sensitivity issues.

 

However, it does mean that the stick neutral point is, using our 40/60 example earlier, now 10% further forward than what FFB users will be used to, particularly if coming to DCS world from other legacy simulators.

 

Their muscle memory will be equating a stick vertical position on their hardware stick with the neutral point, which with the DCS Spitfire, it no longer is.

 

This then is the issue I wanted to make FFB players aware of.

 

Now how this translates to users like yourself with spring centring sticks I'd be curious to know!


Edited by DD_Fenrir
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The implementation of FFB is good but far away from perfect.. For example, if you set curves on pitch/roll axes it'll mess up the trim forces as they are not correlated in any way. This goes for all A/Cs.

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Now how this translates to users like yourself with spring centring sticks I'd be curious to know!

 

It translates the same way minus the feedback :D. Fired up the game with no controllers plugged in at all and lo and behold, the diamond is offset to the back, so that's how it's programmed for all of us.

 

I applaud the idea of emulating longer back throw of control column by the means of "60/40", though it seems only the Spit has it, as the diamond is centered in 3 remaining DCS warbirds - they seem to be "symmetrical", like in "older sims" ;). Unless their real counterparts had symmetrical throw too, I never really investigated that.

i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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It translates the same way minus the feedback :D. Fired up the game with no controllers plugged in at all and lo and behold, the diamond is offset to the back, so that's how it's programmed for all of us.

 

Ok - does trimming push the virtual force free position to your stick centre then so that when you trim for say a virtual stick forward position, you can gradually relax the forward pressure you apply until your hardware stick is centered?

 

 

I applaud the idea of emulating longer back throw of control column by the means of "60/40", though it seems only the Spit has it, as the diamond is centered in 3 remaining DCS warbirds - they seem to be "symmetrical", like in "older sims" ;). Unless their real counterparts had symmetrical throw too, I never really investigated that.

 

Lol.. touche! Don't know - will do some digging on that front, be interesting to know.

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Ok - does trimming push the virtual force free position to your stick centre then so that when you trim for say a virtual stick forward position, you can gradually relax the forward pressure you apply until your hardware stick is centered?

 

If I understood the above correctly, then yes, that's how we spring-centered guys get the force dialed out on our sticks indeed.

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i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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Thanks for sharing your knowledge DD_Fenrir, I have setup my pitch curve same as yours and found the aircraft pitch control to be a lot smoother.

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Very good input on that vid Fenrir! I normally use my Virpil T-50 Base with 10cm extension without any curves or dead zones and thats absolutely perfect for the spit. But i tried the warthog without extensions and your profile provides a really nice feel despite the lack of an extension. Well done Sir!

 

Besides that I can encourage everyone to use an extension with DCS - it's a game changer.

 

I am really looking forward for further episodes as i am flying the old lady exclusively at the moment - your effort is highly appreciated!

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  • 2 months later...

Hi Fen

Your user defined curves were a huge help to me. I use a Warthog stick and when using the control box thing in the sim (right cont+enter) I noticed my center position is not in the center either. So when I use your curves for both elevator and rudder and then push my stick forward a bit to the center position it makes a big difference. I can more often than not takeoff in a reasonably straight line.Without the nose pitching up and down like a cork on a stormy sea.

Many thanks

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  • 1 month later...

DD Fenrir (and others), your advice in helping with the Spitfire has been invaluable and kept us mere mortals at it. Most of us would have binned it long since only for you. Every time I taxy and line up I have a big smile now...

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