Is support for VR dwindling?

First of all this is an awesome sim/ game and especially in VR, but each update seems to bring more challenges for this payer base and I'm yet to see update that's released focused on optimising or improving our VR performance.

I wonder what the future is for DCS VR support in general?

First of all this is an awesome sim/ game and especially in VR, but each update seems to bring more challenges for this payer base and I'm yet to see update that's released focused on optimising or improving our VR performance.

 

I wonder what the future is for DCS VR support in general?

I can tell you from the perspective of a recent, progressive hardware upgrade that upgrading my video card from a GTX980 Ti to a GTX1080 Ti made the biggest difference in my VR experience in DCS. A couple of weeks after that, I upgraded my motherboard and processor and found a sweetspot with overclocking at 4.2MHz. I get all the detail (all of the detail that is actually noticeable anyway), smooth framerates, and the ground rush is incredible. Looks like you've got a good rig, but the GPU might be dragging you down a little bit. Just going to the higher level card was enough in VR to make the A-10 go from feeling like a lumbering dog, to the dancing, bobbing, weaving combat aircraft that it actually is. Other than that though, I agree with you that it looks like there isn't as much focus as there maybe should be on optimizing things to make the VR experience better for a wider base of customers.

It seems to me that they've been steadily working on VR, and they've achieved far more than most other dev shops. In the next patch we'll be seeing a new default view position in VR for instance. Not long ago I had to run with PD at 1.5 to clearly view the gauges, now I run in 1.2 and everything is crystal clear. I'm now also able to run with MSAA and deferred shading, which wasn't possible before. I maintain between 80 and 90 FPS in most situations, dropping to 45 when there are a lot of objects. Here's my writeup on performance tweaking in VR if you're interested: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=201647

My Rift would gather dust if not for DCS. Elite Dangerous is decent in VR, but other than that no one has the skill that ED does and most other games/sims fall flat. Fallout 4 is a good example. They tried to create a VR mode and had to completely change the game and make a lot of compromises. From a functional standpoint, DCS is the same in VR as it is on a monitor if you have the correct hardware and settings. From a visual and immersive standpoint it completely owns me. When I compare DCS in VR to my experience in early sims where I had to tweak my config.sys and autoexec.bat to keep my wire frame from stuttering, I sometimes wonder if I'm only dreaming.

Also see this: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3466347&postcount=12

I am a massive fan of DCS and it is my go-to game for jet combat, but IMO each update has set me back in relation to FPS in VR, usually requiring a trade-off in resolution, effects or both to stay where I was before the update.

I wouldn't like to think how many hours I've spent configuring/ optimising settings over the last few years, but probably as much as flying time. December last year, I upgraded my PC at some expense and got ahead with amazing performance in Version 1.58, then reluctantly had to move to Version 2.5 accepting a drop in performance, even after having to re-optimise settings yet again.

I do not remember getting an update where ED promoted performance enhancement for VR users and to the contrary, the introduction of Deferred Shading is a good example where FPS drops (even in non-VR) but in VR coluors also look either over saturated, washed out or both depending on where looking. The ability to at least turn this off has now been removed, but for who's benefit?

Without mentioning names, there are at least two other sims/ games now better both visually and performance wise in VR. One is a WW2 sim who also have jet development underway.

My impression is ED do not consider the VR player base when making such changes, because we are the minority compared to the non-VR customer base, so we just have to configure around any changes as best as possible.

I am a massive fan of DCS and it is my go-to game for jet combat, but IMO each update has set me back in relation to FPS in VR, usually requiring a trade-off in resolution, effects or both to stay where I was before the update.

 

I wouldn't like to think how many hours I've spent configuring/ optimising settings over the last few years, but probably as much as flying time. December last year, I upgraded my PC at some expense and got ahead with amazing performance in Version 1.58, then reluctantly had to move to Version 2.5 accepting a drop in performance, even after having to re-optimise settings yet again.

 

I do not remember getting an update where ED promoted performance enhancement for VR users and to the contrary, the introduction of Deferred Shading is a good example where FPS drops (even in non-VR) but in VR coluors also look either over saturated, washed out or both depending on where looking. The ability to at least turn this off has now been removed, but for who's benefit?

 

Without mentioning names, there are at least two other sims/ games now better both visually and performance wise in VR. One is a WW2 sim who also have jet development underway.

 

My impression is ED do not consider the VR player base when making such changes, because we are the minority compared to the non-VR customer base, so we just have to configure around any changes as best as possible.

I agree. Dcs VR support is not very good.

Hope to get more tuning for it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have found the opposite to be the case. There are some issues sure, but VR is front and centre as far as developments are concerned, so I think you have a rather pessimistic outlook guys.

VR is the most resource hungry way to run DCS World, and you will need to do a little research here, or try tweaking things to establish the best settings for maximum performance. Right now, you will not be able to run things on max, and MSAA and anti aliasing need to be handled with care. There is no spare power when you use VR.

The good news is the next generation of GPUs is about to arrive, so although it'll cost more hard earned cash, there is a way forwards.

I think we need to take it in stride,Since January of this year with the introduction of the long awaited and promised DCS World 2.5 we've seen a Massive update to the core game.

The DCS Team is not limitless with time and resources.We just received an update to help solve some memory game issues with 2.5.1. I believe once they get the core game issues resolved they'll revisit optimizing VR.

As a side note,a 1080ti with a mild memory overclock can do wonders in smoothing out some VR rough spots.

The good news is the next generation of GPUs is about to arrive, so although it'll cost more hard earned cash, there is a way forwards.

I think that's my point, are we expected to keep upgrading our systems to keep performance where we got it to so the gameplay is enjoyable? Is ED's focus ever on improving the games FPS performance to improve everyone's gameplay and even allow a lower cost entry point, or just how nice the trees look etc. It seems whenever we spend hours tweaking and spend money to get the smooth game play right there's an update waiting round the corner to knock it back again where we were before.

I get some peeps want the deferred shading, but for me it was a big step backwards, so I turned it off, now ED have taken that option away for no apparent reason and without improving performance for everyone first.

Another thing..If peeps like myself are spending money on upgrading kit, they've got less to spend on shiny new planes, alternatively they can spend hard earned cash on DLC for games that consistently maintain/ improve performance and add features without the extra demand on hardware.

We do have to be patient. VR itself is basically a beta experience. Its wonderful but man its frustrating, and not least because nothing ever remains static.

You can be happy one day and the next an update comes out and its back to square one. You'll be much happier accepting it for what it is, using the mission editor. Also try to get into helicopters if you haven't, as that aspect of the sim (with the right lighting/gamma/time) is basically perfect for me. Luckily for me I love helicopter flying more than anything.

Trees sometimes look awful (seem to look worse when there a only a few of them) but they sometimes look fantastic (forests) and that's true of the game in general, there are actual places that look awful, and others that look great. Nevada is ugly as sin in some places, and at some times in the day, but I just fly around the city. I think you'll be much happier in VR/DCS if you forget the MP for the moment or the main game, and either make your own missions or customize existing ones.

Yes lights have major problems and I fly night alot in VR as nothing can get close to the realism of VR combined with night flying!

Sadly DCS/VR is at present more demanding than the present technology can keep up with.

We do have to be patient. VR itself is basically a beta experience. Its wonderful but man its frustrating, and not least because nothing ever remains static.

 

You can be happy one day and the next an update comes out and its back to square one. You'll be much happier accepting it for what it is, using the mission editor. Also try to get into helicopters if you haven't, as that aspect of the sim (with the right lighting/gamma/time) is basically perfect for me. Luckily for me I love helicopter flying more than anything.

 

Trees sometimes look awful (seem to look worse when there a only a few of them) but they sometimes look fantastic (forests) and that's true of the game in general, there are actual places that look awful, and others that look great. Nevada is ugly as sin in some places, and at some times in the day, but I just fly around the city. I think you'll be much happier in VR/DCS if you forget the MP for the moment or the main game, and either make your own missions or customize existing ones.

 

Yes lights have major problems and I fly night alot in VR as nothing can get close to the realism of VR combined with night flying!

 

Sadly DCS/VR is at present more demanding than the present technology can keep up with.

All issue you mention affect non VR games as well. The truth is that native VR support is very good in DCS. I can deploy the A-10C without restrictions, the problem is that people who aren’t very bright can’t. VR isn’t now, and probably never will be, idiot proof.

All I want ED to add is a knee pad and I’ll be completely happy.

As a side note,a 1080ti with a mild memory overclock can do wonders in smoothing out some VR rough spots.

99% of computer hardware consumers will not be overclocking anything. It is up to the software vendors to ensure that their products are playable with out-of-the-box hardware.

99% of computer hardware consumers will not be overclocking anything. It is up to the software vendors to ensure that their products are playable with out-of-the-box hardware.

Rubbish. Most high end users will try overclocking, especially milsim fans who use VR. These people are power users after all.

99% of computer hardware consumers will not be overclocking anything. It is up to the software vendors to ensure that their products are playable with out-of-the-box hardware.

Rubbish. Most high end users will try overclocking, especially milsim fans who use VR. These people are power users after all.

Did I say high end users? Did I say power users? The number of people that overclock their hardware is 1% or less.

Did I say high end users? Did I say power users? The number of people that overclock their hardware is 1% or less.

Who do you think buys these high end GPUs the OP was referring to?

Who do you think buys these high end GPUs the OP was referring to?

The OP didn't mention anything about GPUs at all and he is running a 1070 which is not a high end GPU.

OP post, just to refresh your memory:

First of all this is an awesome sim/ game and especially in VR, but each update seems to bring more challenges for this payer base and I'm yet to see update that's released focused on optimising or improving our VR performance.

 

I wonder what the future is for DCS VR support in general?

Just to put some numbers behind this, i'm doing some testing in Nevada with no clouds, buildings etc just comparing the difference between V2.5 DS off and V2.51 with it on.

Here's the effect on my system with all setting exactly the same and PD at 1.5.

V2.5

45 - 80 FPS

GPU 60 - 90% load

CPU 40% load

Result = totally smooth gameplay with clear instruments.

V2.51

40 - 50 FPS

GPU 90 - 99% load

CPU 40% load

Result = Instruments still clearish, but landscape not as clear, edges more jagged, gameplay ok, but suffers some stutters, loss of frames.

Looks like I would need to upgrade to a 1080 GPU to get back to the same in game experience I was enjoying before Deferred shading was made compulsory.

I think that's an extra £400 cost for me to stay still, or it could be better spent on new maps/ planes etc. as they are made available.

Who do you think buys these high end GPUs the OP was referring to?

I have a 1080ti, and I'm in no hurry to mess with OC. I bought a non "k" chip as well, because I didn't want to take a risk with overheating.

The OP didn't mention anything about GPUs at all and he is running a 1070 which is not a high end GPU.

 

 

 

OP post, just to refresh your memory:

Rubbish. Here is what he said:

 

As a side note,a 1080ti with a mild memory overclock can do wonders in smoothing out some VR rough spots.

That’s the post you commented on.

Just to put some numbers behind this, i'm doing some testing in Nevada with no clouds, buildings etc just comparing the difference between V2.5 DS off and V2.51 with it on.

 

Here's the effect on my system with all setting exactly the same and PD at 1.5.

 

V2.5

45 - 80 FPS

GPU 60 - 90% load

CPU 40% load

Result = totally smooth gameplay with clear instruments.

 

 

V2.51

40 - 50 FPS

GPU 90 - 99% load

CPU 40% load

Result = Instruments still clearish, but landscape not as clear, edges more jagged, gameplay ok, but suffers some stutters, loss of frames.

 

Looks like I would need to upgrade to a 1080 GPU to get back to the same in game experience I was enjoying before Deferred shading was made compulsory.

 

I think that's an extra £400 cost for me to stay still, or it could be better spent on new maps/ planes etc. as they are made available.

Yeah I think it's a rather thoughtless thing to do to their VR users to be honest as if I was still on my old rig I would now be left basically unable to play. Many people were led to believe 2.5 would actually improve performance significantly. Does anyone know what their explanation is for making DS mandatory now?

All issue you mention affect non VR games as well. The truth is that native VR support is very good in DCS. I can deploy the A-10C without restrictions, the problem is that people who aren’t very bright can’t. VR isn’t now, and probably never will be, idiot proof.

What are you doing then, that lesser mortals are not if you don't mind me asking? Would be glad to compare notes!

 

Looks like I would need to upgrade to a 1080 GPU to get back to the same in game experience I was enjoying before Deferred shading was made compulsory.

 

I think that's an extra £400 cost for me to stay still, or it could be better spent on new maps/ planes etc. as they are made available.

Just in case you did end up upgrading your GPU, just remember a 1080 ti is going to give you a significant improvement. A plain jane 1080 might not. That's just speculation on my part though, as my upgrade was from a 980ti.

I can deploy the A-10C without restrictions, the problem is that people who aren’t very bright can’t. VR isn’t now, and probably never will be, idiot proof.

Amazing, what is it like to an enlightened genius? You seem like such an agreeable person, probably a real joy to be around.

Just in case you did end up upgrading your GPU, just remember a 1080 ti is going to give you a significant improvement. A plain jane 1080 might not. That's just speculation on my part though, as my upgrade was from a 980ti.

Thanks eaglecash867, I think £400 is approximately the price difference to from 1070 to 1080Ti, although I won't be rushing out to buy one, when I can just use DCS V2.5 or spend money in other Sims that run just fine with what I have. Besides, I think Deferred Shading has some way to go to enhance the quality of DCS graphics in VR from where it was.

Thanks eaglecash867, I think £400 is approximately the price difference to from 1070 to 1080Ti, although I won't be rushing out to buy one, when I can just use DCS V2.5 or spend money in other Sims that run just fine with what I have. Besides, I think Deferred Shading has some way to go to enhance the quality of DCS graphics in VR from where it was.

I hear ya, NAKE. I've been experimenting with turning things on and off to weigh the cost versus the benefits. I agree from my standpoint, the deferred shading feature needs some work. I'm still going to try turning AA completely off though and see if there are any benefits to deferred shading. I haven't really seen a noticeable difference through increasing levels of AA anyway, so it won't hurt to lose that for a flight or two and see what this deferred shading thing does for the overall experience. So much of this is subjective.

99% of computer hardware consumers will not be overclocking anything. It is up to the software vendors to ensure that their products are playable with out-of-the-box hardware.

Hmmm,How shall I put this??? ;)

I remember when FSX came out....some 11 yrs ago?? The graphics and options were so advanced that no PC or stock GPU/CPU at that time could run it at MAX settings....tweaking became a normal/acceptable way of getting the best bang for your hardware's buck!! And if you had a Beefy CPU?Say,2.5 GHz or over? You found a way to over clock that thing and keep it cool.

**2018** Not much has changed.....Tech has advanced and so must we....VR is cutting edge stuff,If you want to keep up kids, You are going to have to learn to tweek, over clock and adjust your hardware and settings to give you the best experience you can get.

This is Flight Simulation 101 Its been this way since The Commador 64 days.

** My Apologies for getting O.T My comments are meant to help those struggling with bottleneck hardware issues**.