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Old 07-11-2018, 11:26 PM   #51
Acidictadpole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wags View Post
Thanks and we greatly appreciate your efforts!

As noted in my earlier post, this is a very complex issue that requires multiple changes by both us and the servers. We believe that network play is a vital part of DCS World and we're doing all we can to improve it from our end.

Thanks,
Matt
I've tried to code multiplayer games before and completely understand that it's amazingly complex. More so than a lot of people understand.

You mentioned official servers, is clarification about that coming soon? Having ED run dedicated servers with an open sourced blueflag-like (or other large-style mission/campaign) would provide immense value to both sides.

You would see the pain that we see and have the correct context to be able to work with it and improve things. And the community would get insight into the best way to use the lua engine to code missions/libraries.

So if those are the official servers you're talking about I would be totally on board with that idea, and even helping out with working on the content for them.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:26 PM   #52
NineLine
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Originally Posted by funkyb View Post
That language makes me nervous. I dream of the day we have a proper dedicated server binary for linux that we can run on our own metal.

The quote makes me wonder if we're instead headed for curated hosting companies with canned mission packs. "The bronze package includes the basic mission pack and supports up to 5 players! For the serious pilots we offer the high performance tier that supports up to 10 players and comes with the bonus mission pack!"

I hope that's not the case.

No, I dont think it will go that far, but an official server should showcase the game and give the best experience possible right? And Users will be able to have official servers as well.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:27 PM   #53
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From a player point of view, unfortunately the 2.5 update has more or less killed most of multiplayer for me. I'll preface that my system specs are up to par, and I keep settings rather conservative to make things smoother rather than prettier. The main issue I've found is the very long connection time to the server, and the subsequent wait of five to fifteen minutes before I am able to actually click an airfield/aircraft on the list without crashing the game. At times the connection flat out fails and I end up in the main menu again. This sometimes becomes a cycle.


Because of work and education commitments, there's simply not enough time in the world to spend up to 1h staring at loading screens and restarting the game before getting any flying done, and because of that I've put 100% of my online gaming time into Il-2 Sturmovik as it presents a more reliable return for time invested.


The instability and loading times are even worse if the server is populated or uses scripts heavily, but please understand that while these factors can and will sometimes exacerbate the problem, it is a problem that exists as part of the game, and that is the part that needs attention. Server owners, I'm sure, are happy to work together with you to bridge the gap between development and practical application, make sure to use that.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:27 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by NineLine View Post
Generally that means you have a bad connection to the server, what kind of pings are you getting to a server that this happens to you on, and does your computer meet DCS specs, its all connected, ED cant fix everything, but they are trying to do as much as they can.
Correct. I tested a bit the MP issues, and for example, it seems to load a lot objects (and data) from the server, in a lot of very small packets. Also if you loose packets the server-client sync can be problematic (in loading and also playing). I can recommend to check the connection and use always a wired network because wifi almost always loose packets (and adds some noticiable latency). For me a thumb rule is: more latency = exponential load times.

Also is remarkable the VERY high VRAM usage at now, and for this is very important to have less pre-radius range. The VRAM is limited and the RAM is a lot slower, when you haven't VRAM the system uses RAM for graphics, and this is slow.

Other issues is when a player enters in the server, this will lag to all players and also the current high resource consumtion for objects. A mission with a lot objects will be very hard to the server and the clients (on load times and running fps).

Anyway, DCS 2.5 is improving a lot and very fast, i'm sure that those problems are known and ED are doing their best work to fix it and also creating new content.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:28 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Acidictadpole View Post
I've tried to code multiplayer games before and completely understand that it's amazingly complex. More so than a lot of people understand.

You mentioned official servers, is clarification about that coming soon? Having ED run dedicated servers with an open sourced blueflag-like (or other large-style mission/campaign) would provide immense value to both sides.

You would see the pain that we see and have the correct context to be able to work with it and improve things. And the community would get insight into the best way to use the lua engine to code missions/libraries.

So if those are the official servers you're talking about I would be totally on board with that idea, and even helping out with working on the content for them.
Official servers will be EDSA run and User run. But yeah, more info to come.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:29 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by jers View Post
"both us and the servers"

I'm game for this. These changes that need to be made I'm super on board with it, but we definitely take incredible care with our code and do a lot to ensure that our scripting is lean and does at little as possible to facilitate dynamic feeling missions, and as soon as we leave the realm of trivial, we encounter issues. Is there specifics around this?
Naturally, first start with a server that at least meets the minimum spec for online play and a fat bandwidth. After that, they key is to build missions iteratively. Just 16 players to start, no scripts, and a minimum of objects and units. Once you have good stability at a very basic level, start adding additional components (players, scripts, units, etc.) one at a time until you reach a “breaking point” to determine what is triggering the instability.

Thanks,
Matt
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:33 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by NineLine View Post
Did you read Wags post, ED is certainly not pretending there isnt an issue, and moving forward with efforts to make it better.
I did read Wags post, and it's nice to hear something, but we've heard all this before. It's been very vague "please bear with us guys" now for years. And I'm not exaggerating, like, 7 years give or take. We were very trusting then and we backed off confident that a solution was coming out, and we were trusting for a long time and here we are still.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:33 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by funkyb View Post
That language makes me nervous. I dream of the day we have a proper dedicated server binary for linux that we can run on our own metal.

The quote makes me wonder if we're instead headed for curated hosting companies with canned mission packs. "The bronze package includes the basic mission pack and supports up to 5 players! For the serious pilots we offer the high performance tier that supports up to 10 players and comes with the bonus mission pack!"

I hope that's not the case.
I don't think thats the issue, I assume it will be in the same vein as like games like Battlefield where its just a dedicated server running specific missions run by the Devs.

My concern is, it means we are locked into specific missions with specific rules.

My group runs missions that range from every casual (Ticket to Creech) to a little more "hardcore". We add a lot of special customization and special dynamic side missions. Stuff like this is what makes our server popular. Stuff like this might not run on official servers.

Not only that, but it harms communities when its only the OFFICIAL servers that run stable and squadron servers run like crap. So now no one flies on squadron servers and it kills our ability to make friends and recruit and run our style of miission because its always empty.

Now, if "Official" is like how Americas Army 2.0 did it, which is rented validated servers, thats fine, but that does tend to get super pricey because of inflated pricing due to being "exclusive"
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:35 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by jers View Post
I did read Wags post, and it's nice to hear something, but we've heard all this before. It's been very vague "please bear with us guys" now for years. And I'm not exaggerating, like, 7 years give or take. We were very trusting then and we backed off confident that a solution was coming out, and we were trusting for a long time and here we are still.
There will be more news this Friday. So that should be soon enough
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:37 PM   #60
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I wouldn't start panicking yet, ED will listen to everyone's concerns, they see what people enjoy playing out there, and what kind of content they want. Just wait for more info, but by all means state what you would like to see, it does help mold DCS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kocrachon View Post
I don't think thats the issue, I assume it will be in the same vein as like games like Battlefield where its just a dedicated server running specific missions run by the Devs.

My concern is, it means we are locked into specific missions with specific rules.

My group runs missions that range from every casual (Ticket to Creech) to a little more "hardcore". We add a lot of special customization and special dynamic side missions. Stuff like this is what makes our server popular. Stuff like this might not run on official servers.

Not only that, but it harms communities when its only the OFFICIAL servers that run stable and squadron servers run like crap. So now no one flies on squadron servers and it kills our ability to make friends and recruit and run our style of miission because its always empty.

Now, if "Official" is like how Americas Army 2.0 did it, which is rented validated servers, thats fine, but that does tend to get super pricey because of inflated pricing due to being "exclusive"
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