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Old 01-12-2020, 05:03 PM   #121
Ducksen
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+1
Regardless of ED bringing it back or not.
This post lingers on a point that scaling vs expectation is a bit off.
I have had a feeling that the scaling of the sim is off. I have had NO WAY to prove that. Buildings look way to small, some of them look like they could fit on a hardpoint under the wing. YES I am joking, I don't believe them to be that small. I just feel they are.
Using the measuring tool in the DCS Editor, some runways are 60-100 meters wide. A soccer field is 100 meters LONG. When taxing around that it does not feel that large. YES the aircrafts are large in real life. But I have no sense that I could play a full sized soccer match on the width of a runway in DCS. The math adds up, you can, but the feeling of scale is off.


And objects size will help giving people good vision again. I am using a Vive VR system for display device. I like it a lot, resolution is poor(NOT ED's fault!), and I can not see far at all. Only when right on top of me. Labels are valuable to find anything.
I have a programmable keyboard and have set a function of activating labels on a key. Keep it off, but for that superman question; "Is it a bird, is it a plane...." I use labels.


My wish, honestly, Make scaling feel right, solve the object size for all regardless of 4K or VR. And after that, make labels unavailable unless in debug mode for mission creation and design.
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Old 01-12-2020, 07:12 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducksen View Post
My wish, honestly, Make scaling feel right, solve the object size for all regardless of 4K or VR.
If you don't feel real even in VR nothing will help you. But do the test - eject! Seriously - eject and walk around the place, your aircraft, those buildings, trees and see how it feels. Maybe your scale feels off because there are no people and cars around to scale against that are present every day IRL. The scaling is right when your fov is right.
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Old 01-12-2020, 07:33 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpeXB View Post
Excerpt from Nineline's quote in that link:
"You need to think about what makes something more or less visible in the real world, and what about that is missing or needs improvement from ED, enlarging things isn't one of them."

I think this is the main point. There are many things IRL that make spotting objects either easier or harder depending on the situation and these are missing from DCS or are just simply not done well enough. This is really what needs to be fixed.
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Old 01-12-2020, 08:23 PM   #124
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official dimension of soccer firld size.





if DCS puts a free soccer field without a stadium to use it as a TEST for the size it would be easier.
try to land with an AV8 harrier should occupy the whole center field.
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Old 01-12-2020, 09:08 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xilon_x View Post
if DCS puts a free soccer field without a stadium to use it as a TEST for the size it would be easier.
try to land with an AV8 harrier should occupy the whole center field.
It's so funny idea that I went for it

Check attachments. That field's long for over 100m according to ME. Sorry for terrain textures (low).
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Last edited by draconus; 01-12-2020 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 01-12-2020, 09:35 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiJack View Post
I just did a test and I can barely spot two MiG-29S with smoky engines on 3 miles distance. I have to know where they are and then zoom in max to see them.

So the fix is not large object size settings but "realistic object size settings" because bringing back the big object size settings from the past is unrealistic as get all!


If this setting is coming back, it should be the exception, not the norm.
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Old 01-12-2020, 09:39 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draconus View Post
It's so funny idea that I went for it

Check attachments. That field's long for over 100m according to ME. Sorry for terrain textures (low).

uaaaaaaaaooo beautiful and 'went perfectly in the center.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:42 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrafinale View Post
In real world cockpit, you can't see a plane few miles away, let alone 22 miles away. When in actual cockpit, planes beyond 5-8 miles appear nothing more than a blurred dot. Use radar when flying. When in visual range, look, and you will see the actual plane.
I actually challenge anyone who sat in a cockpit say that they can see another plane beyond six miles on a clear day with no clouds. There is visual range beyond which the human eye can not see.
Learn to use the radar detection system on the jets. Without that knowledge, you are simply inviting a missile in your cockpit.

It is rationally unfair to be asking for ways to visually see planes 22 miles away from you.

Thank you TerraFinale!


To all, let's keep DCS a realistic as possible sim first and in default settings, and make any arcade functions an option at best...Cheers!
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:40 AM   #129
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For reference, using a 35'' ultrawide at 3440x1440 I spotted another Harrier at 8nm. He was a speck, but a Harrier at approximately 8nm would be.

On initial sighting, I was at a normalish FoV, i.e. I don't zoom far out but try to have the cockpit at something approximating true scale, ie I have to look down to see all but the top few gauges. Object was just above horizon and barely visible. Again, a Harrier at 8nm WOULD be ''barely'' visible if at all.

At closer ranges I was spotting ground targets out to at least a couple miles, although it varied a lot depending on the object in question. Some have LoDs to further ranges than others.

I spotted a pair of Ka-50s initially at close range, and sporadically tracked them, to be expected when traveling an order of magnitude faster and them diving for the deck. Range varied from a few hundred meters to looping above them and extending for 1-2 miles in a hammerhead and diving on them to make a kill.

Personal conclusion :
High resolution is a nonissue provided you're not running 4k on a sub 30'' screen. If your resolution is appropriate for your monitor size, as is your FoV (give or take) it's not all that bad by any means.

In my assessment most ''technical'' spotting issues are due to funky LoDs (a confirmed and undeniable issue as they wink in and out of existence, outright derendering, this mostly affects older cruder 3d models as far as I can see).

A close second contributor is contrast of objects against the background. I personally made considerable improvements to spotting by tweaking ingame Gamma and my monitors brightneas/contrast settings. A lot of calibration software is available, I suggest using it.

Beyond these technical issues, I'd say the issues are going to be personal, ie running suboptimal settings, FoV, too high res on too small monitor and sitting too far away, etc, and the ever present ''skill'' factor. Yes, it takes practice and an intelligent methodology, believe it or not, as well as a high degree of alertness.


Ending thoughts:

Better/more color/contrast controls would be helpful for people too lazy to use their monitor controls or GPU profiles.

Improved and consistent LoDs so one tank doesn't wink out of existence while the one beside it does not.

Perhaps a ''FoV'' calibration? ''Tweak the slider until object A is 4'' long'' so people KNOW if their FoV is right or not.
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Old 03-30-2020, 01:10 AM   #130
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I was looking at coming back after an 8 year hiatus, I can see the scaling issue is still present. I was griping about back in the Lock On 1.02 days of 2004. Link below for a reference of what I'm talking about, at minute 2:05. The perspective is about 30% zoomed out from what you can actually see when flying a Hornet. You can't see that much of the HUD projector and the top of the HUD camera unless your seat is too high.

I guess the best estimate of what the sizing should be in your FOV (I can't tell how it looks in VR as I don't even have a set up anymore, let alone a rift) is to put both your hands out in front of you side by side. That's about the size of the HUD. Each side of the pitch ladders should be about 2/3rds the length of your middle finger, and a MiG or a Hornet are about the size of a pitch ladder at 1500ft. The game looks zoomed out in to an almost fish-eye view compared to the real thing.

If you've got VR, give me your feedback on how it compares to the above. I don't want to get back in to this if it still doesn't look right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDwU...B17791&index=8
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