Will the Shkval get some love?

With the update to the KA50 coming for which i am super excited. Is the Shkval going to get a makeover?

I am no expert and have no idea how the system actually works. But i am assuming it should not be able to lock a target through 2 KM of trees , track targets through buildings or lock range almost completely dependent on time of day regardless of lighting on the target.

Just curious if the Shkval going to get some love with the new update.

Thanks ED

Looks like you have a Shkval on steroids, and I don't know how you do that because:

- there is no way to lock a target with it as soon as it's getting dark, or even when the sun is getting a bit low over the horizon.

- how do you lock a target behind trees? You have to see the target first I would assume.

- the tracking behind buildings comes from the coasting algorithm that is activated when you are selecting "moving target" on your targeting computer. So it is not actual tracking and it is realistic. You'll notice that if the coasting is lasting a bit too long, the reticle is just going crazy.

Now, I am not saying that everything is working alright with the Shkval . The crazy Shkval bug is still there for example, and it has been for years.

If it isn't the middle of the day, and the target isn't a big tank, my shkval won't lock crap.

But yeah, the shkval needs to lock on contrast like the IRL one.

If it isn't the middle of the day, and the target isn't a big tank, my shkval won't lock crap.

 

 

But yeah, the shkval needs to lock on contrast like the IRL one.

I'm curious why you have these difficulties locking targets unless its optimal conditions.. If you like post the conditions or a miz/track file where you are having these difficulties, i'm sure some of the community could help. :thumbup:

The current Shkval acquisition logic is simply a hack:

IF an object is under the cursor AND it's "in range" THEN you get a valid lock.

The problem is the "in range" part:

It's a fixed value of around 10-12km (estimated, not tested). Even before the sun starts setting this value will gradually decrease, even if the target is still fully illuminated. Rain and snow will do a similar thing. So even when flying through decent weather you could end up with acquisition ranges less than 7km.

The Shkval video feed is also broken: doesn't show rain/snow, no shadows, illumination based on TOD instead of actual light conditions.

There is nothing the community can do about that. ED needs to rewrite the Shkval so it tracks based on contrast and the video feed is accurate.

Black Shark 3 better fixes this, but knowing ED it's probably not going to be part of the initial release.

"Black Shark 3 better fixes this"

:(

Yeah. Black Shark 3 needs to fix a lot by implementing a actual contrast detection lock (really, not a difficult to generate in fly a 16x16 or 32 x 32 pixel black and white (pure black and white) frames of the targeting gate area and then use commonly available algorithms to perform the tracking for that.

Such thing would make Shkval leap forward in capabilities, as we could easily lock on air targets, ground targets, anything really that is there just to give the contrast.

And then of course get all those weather effects, low resolution, shkval stabilization and movement speeds etc.

What I am more interested to learn is what all the Shkval targeting modes really are, the knob below the weapons configuration panel, as there looks to be settings for sunset, sunrise, night mode etc.

That knob doesn't do anything in the current Ka-50 module.

My best guess is it sets the contrast required for the Shkval to lock on to something.

On a bright sunny day you'll have more contrast between a vehicle and its surroundings, and you wouldn't want the Shkval tracking some random spot on the terrain that just looks slightly different than the surrounding area. That's when you'd use the "sun" setting.

With overcast the contrast will be less because there is no direct sunlight to reflect (even military vehicles are somewhat shiny in the sun). In this case you'd use a different setting that reduces the "contrast requirement" for locking onto a target.

Hopefully, with EO work on the F-18 and F-16, it will trickle down to the Shkval on the Ka-50.

I was hyped about the Ka-50 getting some attention again, two buddies and I even flew an old mission of mine. It was all fun until we realised lock on was achievable within about 1000 meters due to clouds or a very light haze...

Yey.

The current Shkval acquisition logic is simply a hack:

IF an object is under the cursor AND it's "in range" THEN you get a valid lock.

Humm, only if you fly VMC daylight. You should challenge yourself a bit more and try to fly nighttime. You'll see that this is not the way you believe it works.

Humm, only if you fly VMC daylight. You should challenge yourself a bit more and try to fly nighttime. You'll see that this is not the way you believe it works.

Let's face the truth, it is pretty much how it is now, just that the range parameter varies based on TOD and fog. It isn't really that bad, but it can benefit from some improvement, and yes, should be able to lock on dead units as well.

+1 on the dead units metzger. Although sometimes it is very useful to see who is dead and who is alive. But not realistic indeed.

Lol, try locking a helicopter at range. You can forget it.

Don't even bother trying to lock a fighter at any range.

This is why we are demanding Igla's.

Even if you were able to lock a fighter, there would be no point. Your Vikhr is not fast or accurate enough to catch up this kind of target. For helicopter, with a Vikhr you need to lock when your target is flying toward or away from you, but locking a moving helicopter when it is flying left to right or right to left will be very hard. If the target is not too threatening, your best choice is to engage it at gun range with your gun.

Lol, try locking a helicopter at range. You can forget it.

 

Don't even bother trying to lock a fighter at any range.

 

 

This is why we are demanding Igla's.

Because you want to fly an interceptor ?

Lol, you try dealing with an AH-64D coming at you.

If you run, you'll just die tired. Same with fighters.

@BadCRC - Even when the heli's are coming at me, I still can't lock them. Not till there right on me, and by that time it's too late.

Lol, you try dealing with an AH-64D coming at you.

 

 

If you run, you'll just die tired. Same with fighters.

 

 

@BadCRC - Even when the heli's are coming at me, I still can't lock them. Not till there right on me, and by that time it's too late.

May i remind you:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3948696&postcount=471

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3948727&postcount=473

Its getting tiring listening to the same ramble. :doh:

@3WA. Well it works for me, but you are right on one point, having AI AH-64 or Mi-24 is deadly although in some rare cases, assuming you know they are coming your way ahead of time, you might be able to spot them early enough. But it is intense.

I think this isn't totally wrong, in general, shkval is ancient system and I can imagine irl it has even more issues in locking and tracking targets. Especially fast moving ones. Sure only one that used one knows for sure, bu I can't imagine this think working very reliable irl.

I think this isn't totally wrong, in general, shkval is ancient system and I can imagine irl it has even more issues in locking and tracking targets. Especially fast moving ones. Sure only one that used one knows for sure, bu I can't imagine this think working very reliable irl.

That's why I said earlier - be careful what you wish for :)

[quote=26-J39;4100822

Its getting tiring listening to the same ramble. :doh:

Yeah, 26! That's why I ignore you!

@3WA. Well it works for me, but you are right on one point, having AI AH-64 or Mi-24 is deadly although in some rare cases, assuming you know they are coming your way ahead of time, you might be able to spot them early enough. But it is intense.

They can be right on me. I put the gate over them, and LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK, LOCK... Nothing.

Then they gun me down. Unfortunately, my Fake RC Controller joystick is too primitive to employ my guns properly, so I always lose in a gunfight. The only way I can really use guns is with manual gunsight and some hardcore flying. I get a couple of rounds in sometimes. :joystick:

Yeah, 26! That's why I ignore you!

Not quite. :)

Hey i'm just trying to show you that you CAN GET A LOCK from at least 7km. You consistently say you cannot get a lock on other helo's which is false information. Clearly you are doing something wrong.

I've offered tips before, even offered the miz file where i took those screenshots from. Instead of insisting there is a problem with the KA-50 maybe you should open yourself to some advise and tips on where you are going wrong.

I think this isn't totally wrong, in general, shkval is ancient system and I can imagine irl it has even more issues in locking and tracking targets. Especially fast moving ones. Sure only one that used one knows for sure, bu I can't imagine this think working very reliable irl.

I so want this... I so want automatic track errors and sometimes having to feed in manual corrections... it'd just be wonderful!

Having better sensor modelling (with contrast issues etc.) would be much more interesting than the night attack upgrade (if it were to be done without such issues anyway).