Hornet Full Hotas Functionality

Hi guys,

I was curious about how is not possible for example to switch between A2G weapons or changing the HSI scale, without taking your hands off your Hotas to go to the DDIs, and its seems really strange to me that things like these cant be done in the real aircraft. Is really so limited or just a consequence of the EA state.

Does anyone have a table, sort of the one in the A10C manual, where the whole HOTAS functionality is described. depending on SOI, weapons, etc?

I am aware that the full HOTAS implementation is not done since we are in EA, but I was wondering if this information is existing somewhere to get a grasp of what we will be capable to do.

Thanks,

You need to have a read of the NATOPS manual.

We've been spoilt with the A10C, the F18 doesn't seem to be quite so "hands off"

This isn't an EA issue, what is implemented is what the aircraft has.

You need to have a read of the NATOPS manual.

 

We've been spoilt with the A10C, the F18 doesn't seem to be quite so "hands off"

 

This isn't an EA issue, what is implemented is what the aircraft has.

I think there's more to the HOTAS than what we've got at the moment.

The Sensor Control Switch is supposed to be somewhat context sensitive, in that bumping the switch toward a DDI will invoke 'some' display changes. E.g swapping between the HSI and SA pages. It will also bring up the Radar display if 'bumped' toward the right DDI and it isn't currently displaying RDR page. Similar for stores page on the left DDI.

Also we should automatically get the radar page displayed when calling up an A2A missile using the weapon select switch. There's probably a few more limited functions like this. Note - they're not listed in the unclassified NATOPS.

The whole HOTAS system does indeed seem limited when compared to the A10 or F16 though. Big difference is the lack of dedicated TMS (Target Management) and DMS (Display Management) switches.

I think there's more to the HOTAS than what we've got at the moment.

 

The Sensor Control Switch is supposed to be somewhat context sensitive, in that bumping the switch toward a DDI will invoke 'some' display changes. E.g swapping between the HSI and SA pages. It will also bring up the Radar display if 'bumped' toward the right DDI and it isn't currently displaying RDR page. Similar for stores page on the left DDI.

 

Also we should automatically get the radar page displayed when calling up an A2A missile using the weapon select switch. There's probably a few more limited functions like this. Note - they're not listed in the unclassified NATOPS.

 

The whole HOTAS system does indeed seem limited when compared to the A10 or F16 though. Big difference is the lack of dedicated TMS (Target Management) and DMS (Display Management) switches.

That kind of functionality is what im referring to. It is not in the unclassified NATOPS at least i could not find it. It is very hard for me to think that there is no functionality A10C/F16 like in the hornet, moreover because this kind of features are implemented through software updates. It is even harder to believe in the case of marines hornet who almost only do A2G, I would thought that someone could have said to Boeing engineers: Hey can you let me switch the f*ck*ng ordinance with my hotas please... :p

Hopefully Boeing will deliver some of this information to ED to get at least one of the latest implementations.

Here you go, that's all there is really.

Here you go, that's all there is really.

No, it's going to be more complicated and better than that. They're just switch names really.

There's going to be lots of context sensitive actuation. Possibly with time based, short press / long press actions. Especially for the Castle Switch.

I'm sure IRL lots of this will change with software additions /updates.

I thought the radar range could be changed based on moving the target designator on the radar screen towards the 12 o'clock and thus off screen? My understanding is that it is just not implemented yet. Am I incorrect?

I thought the radar range could be changed based on moving the target designator on the radar screen towards the 12 o'clock and thus off screen? My understanding is that it is just not implemented yet. Am I incorrect?

This is already implemented and working fine. :)

the hornet hotas is trash compared to the a10c. personally i always keep radar on the right display and have mapped most of the buttons to imitate FC3 functionality. i also switch the bottom display to stores when doing a2g, and have mapped the entire top row as well

Here you go, that's all there is really.

This is incorrect, as they have AMRAAM as Fwd instead of Right on the Weapon Select Switch.

Hi guys,

 

I was curious about how is not possible for example to switch between A2G weapons or changing the HSI scale, without taking your hands off your Hotas to go to the DDIs, and its seems really strange to me that things like these cant be done in the real aircraft. Is really so limited or just a consequence of the EA state.

 

Does anyone have a table, sort of the one in the A10C manual, where the whole HOTAS functionality is described. depending on SOI, weapons, etc?

 

I am aware that the full HOTAS implementation is not done since we are in EA, but I was wondering if this information is existing somewhere to get a grasp of what we will be capable to do.

 

Thanks,

Just a thought, but the TM MFDs help me keep from reaching for mouse clicks to the DDI. About $80 from Amazon.

Just a thought, but the TM MFDs help me keep from reaching for mouse clicks to the DDI. About $80 from Amazon.

I also have 2 of those which I find handy - I also bought 2 x Stream Decks which I have configured with all of the buttons on the UFC. So essentially dont have to touch the mouse very much at all

Just a thought, but the TM MFDs help me keep from reaching for mouse clicks to the DDI. About $80 from Amazon.

I got 4 on Ebay for 100 bucks.

I run 3 in the same layout as the hornet and use an Ipad for the UFC.

This drastically reduces workload as opposed to a mouse

I've mapped radio functions to the mouse as well as F10, cockpit, and chase views.

TrackIR

I only have to use keyboard for specialty stuff now usually at the beginning or end of flight.

I got 4 on Ebay for 100 bucks.

 

 

I run 3 in the same layout as the hornet and use an Ipad for the UFC.

 

 

This drastically reduces workload as opposed to a mouse

 

 

I've mapped radio functions to the mouse as well as F10, cockpit, and chase views.

 

 

TrackIR

 

 

 

I only have to use keyboard for specialty stuff now usually at the beginning or end of flight.

interesting use of an ipad. is it possible to do the same with a ms surface tablet?

I got 4 on Ebay for 100 bucks.

 

 

I run 3 in the same layout as the hornet and use an Ipad for the UFC.

 

 

This drastically reduces workload as opposed to a mouse

 

 

I've mapped radio functions to the mouse as well as F10, cockpit, and chase views.

 

 

TrackIR

 

 

 

I only have to use keyboard for specialty stuff now usually at the beginning or end of flight.

Are you flying inverted? :lol:

My Guess is that more HOTAS funtions will be implemented as the systems are implemented, or completed.

I got 4 on Ebay for 100 bucks.

 

 

I run 3 in the same layout as the hornet and use an Ipad for the UFC.

 

 

This drastically reduces workload as opposed to a mouse

 

 

I've mapped radio functions to the mouse as well as F10, cockpit, and chase views.

 

 

TrackIR

 

 

 

I only have to use keyboard for specialty stuff now usually at the beginning or end of flight.

What software are you using for the UFC to iPad? And is it easy to setup and maintain?

Thank you!

Here's your philosophical thought for the day:

 

Generally, you don't need to go to a ground attack setup or change things in this modality emergently, requiring HOTAS.

 

There's a phrase in aviation called "fast hands in the cockpit" and it's not a good thing. It means that you are frantically smashing buttons in situations when you definitely should not be. Certain things are HOTAS and some things deliberately aren't by design.

 

There's a school of thought that holds that the depth of the A-10C HOTAS and CDU theory of operation is overly complicated which could lead to errors.

Being able to change the HSI range on the HOTAS itself isn't an overly complicated operation in my opinion, and that's just a simple example of things that I think could be on the HOTAS but isn't.

Another is the jammer. You have to be in a specific DDI page, and then hit a specific button to get the jammer to work.....to me that seems overly complicated.

Of course, there's nothing stopping anyone from mapping whatever you want to your own HOTAS. I've filled in things that aren't normally on a real F-18 HOTAS since I have more buttons and switches with my X-56 then a real HOTAS actually has. With shift states you can fit even more. In the end we have more control over what goes on the HOTAS then the real pilots who fly the jets, so I don't think it's a huge deal (but having context sensitive logic for things like the castle switch would make life easier in some areas).

Just my 2 cents.

I just hope the pod is as usable from hotas as the one in the a-10 is. Comparing that one to using it in the harrier (without binding ddi buttons) is a night and day difference in effectiveness for me. Finding, identifying, marking, lasing, etc... I know i could bind ddi buttons to do it in the harrier, but it feels wrong.

I just hope the pod is as usable from hotas as the one in the a-10 is. Comparing that one to using it in the harrier (without binding ddi buttons) is a night and day difference in effectiveness for me. Finding, identifying, marking, lasing, etc... I know i could bind ddi buttons to do it in the harrier, but it feels wrong.

I think it's going to be a lot closer to the Harrier's way of doing things than the A-10's. There is a button on the HOTAS for changing FOV though, so at least zooming will be intuitive.

Here's your philosophical thought for the day:

 

Generally, you don't need to go to a ground attack setup or change things in this modality emergently, requiring HOTAS.

 

There's a phrase in aviation called "fast hands in the cockpit" and it's not a good thing. It means that you are frantically smashing buttons in situations when you definitely should not be. Certain things are HOTAS and some things deliberately aren't by design.

 

There's a school of thought that holds that the depth of the A-10C HOTAS and CDU theory of operation is overly complicated which could lead to errors.

I cant agree on that. I really thing the A10C Hotas is a thing of beauty and very well thought. Also I must say that I see many situations where hotas help you more than complicate your life.

Just imagine you have rockeyes and rockets for AG and you are rolling in to deploy the weapons, initially you were going to use rockets but then you realize targets are very close together and you want to use your cluster bombs. You find yourself in a situation, aligning for your target and then you need to take your left hand from the throttle; so you cant deploy flares if necessary, moreover, you are loosing sight of everything for a fraction of a second, not good. Another good example would be the jammer as a previous poster said you dont want to access a dial down your cockpit at knee level just to turn on a jammer cause in your low level run to a target a SAM has started to track you.

All these situation are just some examples that could be alleviated with a good HOTAS design. Can you go to combat without those? Yes. Will you be more combar effective? I really dont think so.

Finally, remembere that a good hotas is exactly a measure to eliminate the "fast hands in cockpit" not the other way around. I do agree with you on one thing, and this is that you have to correctly fence in before any combat so almost everything should be ready; except the situation that I told you who are totally combat related.

I cant agree on that. I really thing the A10C Hotas is a thing of beauty and very well thought. Also I must say that I see many situations where hotas help you more than complicate your life.

 

Just imagine you have rockeyes and rockets for AG and you are rolling in to deploy the weapons, initially you were going to use rockets but then you realize targets are very close together and you want to use your cluster bombs. You find yourself in a situation, aligning for your target and then you need to take your left hand from the throttle; so you cant deploy flares if necessary, moreover, you are loosing sight of everything for a fraction of a second, not good. Another good example would be the jammer as a previous poster said you dont want to access a dial down your cockpit at knee level just to turn on a jammer cause in your low level run to a target a SAM has started to track you.

 

All these situation are just some examples that could be alleviated with a good HOTAS design. Can you go to combat without those? Yes. Will you be more combar effective? I really dont think so.

 

Finally, remembere that a good hotas is exactly a measure to eliminate the "fast hands in cockpit" not the other way around. I do agree with you on one thing, and this is that you have to correctly fence in before any combat so almost everything should be ready; except the situation that I told you who are totally combat related.

Though you make a good point and I do wish the Hornet had more of an A-10 control philosophy - the Hornet actually has a big red DISP button on the left wall of the cockpit which I'm guessing would be used in exactly that first scenario where you're fiddling with your DDI, can't quickly get your hands back on the throttle and you need to pop flares. I'm guessing they'd just mash it with their elbow.

I have a feeling our jammer is going to be a fair bit more advanced than what we've seen so far in other modules - I think the normal mode will be to leave it in REC where it'll be 'smart' and only jam when we're locked. So it won't necessarily be a case of switching it on and off like you do in FC3 modules or the Mirage/Harrier etc.

None of that invalidates that it'd be quite nice to be able to switch screens / AG weapons without taking our hands off though (though the fault lies with MD/Boeing for that, not ED). Guess we'll just have to wait for the F-16!

I cant agree on that. I really thing the A10C Hotas is a thing of beauty and very well thought. Also I must say that I see many situations where hotas help you more than complicate your life.

 

Just imagine you have rockeyes and rockets for AG and you are rolling in to deploy the weapons, initially you were going to use rockets but then you realize targets are very close together and you want to use your cluster bombs. You find yourself in a situation, aligning for your target and then you need to take your left hand from the throttle; so you cant deploy flares if necessary, moreover, you are loosing sight of everything for a fraction of a second, not good. Another good example would be the jammer as a previous poster said you dont want to access a dial down your cockpit at knee level just to turn on a jammer cause in your low level run to a target a SAM has started to track you.

 

All these situation are just some examples that could be alleviated with a good HOTAS design. Can you go to combat without those? Yes. Will you be more combar effective? I really dont think so.

 

Finally, remembere that a good hotas is exactly a measure to eliminate the "fast hands in cockpit" not the other way around. I do agree with you on one thing, and this is that you have to correctly fence in before any combat so almost everything should be ready; except the situation that I told you who are totally combat related.

I understand your meaning but I think real life is very different in this respect. They will never drop ordnance on a whim like that. If they are going to drop a cbu then they know beforehand where and on what they will drop it on. And if something unexpected happens they will probably abort. So I think the need for such hotas systems is less than we might think. Air to air is of course a different matter.

This is already implemented and working fine. :)

UMH it doenst work for me, do you mean it should work as in the F15C in DCS?

If I move the TDC cursor to 12'o clock direction it doesnt change the radar scale, if it's set to 20 it will stay at 20, the only way I can change the scale with the TDC is by placing the cursor above the up/down arrow on the upper left part of DDI and press "lock" , thne the scale will change.

UMH it doenst work for me, do you mean it should work as in the F15C in DCS?

 

If I move the TDC cursor to 12'o clock direction it doesnt change the radar scale, if it's set to 20 it will stay at 20, the only way I can change the scale with the TDC is by placing the cursor above the up/down arrow on the upper left part of DDI and press "lock" , thne the scale will change.

You need to move it out and back in again.