Sidewinder force feedback 2 problems - ED Forums
 


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Old 02-27-2020, 01:00 PM   #1
Macnopolio
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Default Sidewinder force feedback 2 problems

Hello everyone, I've been trying for quite a few days to get my old ffb stick working with DCS but there seems to be something that's messing up my setup. I have discarded hardware problems of the stick, as I have tested it with a little program called force edit and all the effects played fine. When I enter the game and go thru the menus the stick goes into limp mode, no matter if the grip sensor is on or off (I expect that's normal). Once I enter the game (instant action, already flying) in the first menu the sticks vibrates back and forth if I put my hand on the grip, but once I press the fly button all that shaking is gone, the force of the stick is reduced and the only effects that I receive are vibrations if the attack angle is too high. That's it.

I'm doing all my tries with the su-25t, as I read that it has fantastic ffb, that way I can see if it's worth or not to invest in paid modules. To see if there's a problem with my config, I created a new user on my computer and downloaded dcs in standalone version, and not only the problem persists, but my joystick in this new user is no longer Sidewinder ffb2 but Joystick with 4 axis 8 button joystick, the effects are the same. If I open on the background a program called simFFB I could tweak the resistance of the joystick but still no ffb effects (and the rumble is gone). I have also tried swaping the axis option, and the individual X and Y swap without result.

I know that the stick is not supposed to be this way, because a few days ago, in another computer I managed to get it working for a few moments, I remember that tight turns made the stick harder and harder, it was pretty great, but only lasted a few seconds, because in the middle of the fight with the stick suddenly went into limp mode for a fraction of a second, then ffb reactivated itself. This might be a problem of the dirt that I used to have on the sensor, but I couldn't be sure because I no longer receive those effects. Another thing that might be messing things up is the usb extension port in which I connect the stick, but I also have the same problems with dedicated ports (and having a dedicated power supply, it shouldn't need any more power from the usb). Any ideas? Sorry for this brick.
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:53 PM   #2
AeriaGloria
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Sorry maybe I misunderstand but what is the issue? That the effects aren’t on during briefing and being paused? With the Su-25T it’s FFB stick forces are very light. The stick becomes stiffer at high speeds IIRC and it does vibrate on stall, I think it also vibrates when shooting the gun. But that’s about it, it’s not like other games where it vibrates for almost anything. Some planes have a more pronounced FFB iteration like the warbirds where force is completely removed at low airspeeds, or planes that have variable stick force like the Su-25T depending on G load.

As for turning off during a pull, it is probably your hand moving and no longer the sensor. Some people permanently cover the sensor and others make removable covers it’s Velcro or something. Always used a powered USB hub for flight sim peripherals.
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Old 02-27-2020, 03:14 PM   #3
Macnopolio
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Main issue is that the resistance is linear, always the same, as If I were using a regular joystick. it doesn't get any harder or softer, where it should while doing some maneuvers (the tight turnings for example).

It just rumbles, and I'm quite sure that's not the only effect this joystick is capable of recreating. I've read something along the lines of directinput vs xinput, as the latter only supports rumble effects, might be that the problem? That the joystick is being treated like an xbox 360 controller?
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Old 02-27-2020, 03:51 PM   #4
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No the Su-25T just has pretty simple effects. I don’t know how the real Su-25T is but the stick probably has a spring in it and like other later Sukhois it the resistance of the spring is only increased per G. So the same stickforce always equals the same amount of G in flight. This spring means you still feel resistance in the stick even on the ground because you are pulling 1G.. So that’s probably what it is trying to simulate. As I said FFB differs across the many modules depending on the level of support and each individual plane characteristic. In this case there is just not much to simulate for Su-25T if it’s flight control system is simulating like a Su-27 control stick( in real life, I know it’s not FBW but assuming it’s the same philosophy), there is always a spring there and it’s stiffer with increased G. I don’t know how earlier Sukhois are, but even the MiG-21 use something similar to Q-feel where there is always a spring and force varies based on amount of G pulled. Depending on the plane, like warbirds or other older planes the force will absolutely vary on airspeed and can have more subtle effects, but for the Su-25T it’s pretty simple and there is just not much more then that spring and the varied with G force effects.

The shaking is only simulating the whole plane shaking around you for example, only a few planes like the warbird or other older planes with conventional control systems might actually shake the controls, some even artificial systems have a stick shaking mechanism in real life, but I don’t know which of our planes in DCS are like that.

If you are flying only free planes, try TF-51D, and you will feel how capable it is simulating a plane with convential controls that are always communicating with you.

Last edited by AeriaGloria; 02-27-2020 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 02-27-2020, 06:16 PM   #5
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tf-51d acts the same, linear response in all situations, same If I were using a normal spring-based joystick, no feedback at all (apart from rumble), but this time with a bit more resistance.
The problem is not how hard the joystick is (that's easily solved with simFFB) but the lack of any response of what I do in the game to the forces required to move the stick.
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Old 02-28-2020, 12:18 AM   #6
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I’ll try the TF-51 and see if it works that way. The other warbirds I’ve flown like I-16 or MiG-15 all have controls that lose resistance as you slow dow until they are completely free at a standstill on the ground.
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Old 02-29-2020, 01:21 AM   #7
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The free modules don't have very good FFB. Even the good ones for some reason nerf the FFB level even at 100%. No Idea why. Probably some core setting in a LUA needs futzing.

DCS gets about a C on FFB you at least get a moving trim center. Tomacat and F-5 are around a B, but need more load than DCS will let them have.
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Old 02-29-2020, 03:20 AM   #8
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Don't forget one of the great things about FF in DCS modules (when it's enabled and working anyway) it's not the effects, but the behavior of trim.
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Old 03-01-2020, 07:11 PM   #9
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I have a setup with two MSFFB2 sticks working together and pretty much every time I start DCS using VR one of the sticks has non functioning FFB and sometimes both don’t have FFB. When the FFB doesn’t work only generic centering force is prevent. My way of fixing this is that I first start DCS then shut it down. Then I activate some FFB effect on both sticks separately using forcetest.exe and start DCS again. Then the FFB works properly. On my case this problem arises only when using VR but I don’t remember has it been the same with all the headsets I’ve had or only the Pimax 5k+ I use at the moment. Might be a long shot but maybe you could try this? You can download forcetest.exe from here http://www.fs-force.com/support.php .
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Old 03-01-2020, 09:00 PM   #10
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Warbirds and helicopters have good FFB implementation. Also, relatively linear stiffness is realistic for most of the jets as their sticks tend to be power assisted, and artificially stiffened.

With Su-25T though, as far as I know (haven't flown in a while), you should have your FFB2 jumping all over the table when you overspeed the aircraft, especially with draggy and heavy payload.
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