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Old 09-25-2019, 04:11 PM   #91
Harlikwin
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But thats not how it works in real life. Forces of the nature you are describing would damage equipment. The forces applied along the axis of the boom you are describing are minimal because the boom telescopes freely in and out while in contact. Surge boots and valves ensure hydraulic forces inside the fuel tube are minimized. In the KC-135 while in contact the boom operator manually aligns the boom with the receptacle. The best indication the boom is properly aligned is when it’s “Dancing”. When the boom is Wiggling juuuuust slightly right where the inner and outer tube meet there is no stress on the connection. On the KC-10 the Boom Computer flies the boom to maintain less than 500lbs of pressure in any one direction.

And lateral boom position has far more effect than you believe. Not because the receiver is applying force...because that long skinny boom actually has quite a bit of surface area and it’s attached to the tail of the airplane right under the rudder. During CFIC we would fly the departure out of castle with the boom. By flying the boom out to the right or left limit we would cause the airplane to roll and turn the direction we wanted.

And there is no force required to uncouple. When the boom goes in the receptacle, latch toggles hydraulically capture the boom. On disconnect, the toggles retract and the boom floats out of the receptacle if boom alignment is good. If the toggles don’t retract...there is a procedure. But normally no force.

Ah good, someone who knows what they are talking about. Thanks for the correction. I didn't realize the thing telescoped.

On the lateral boom note, if I'm reading that the boom should stabilize any sort of lateral movment? And also when coupled I assume the plane should be harder to roll or is there alot of play in that too?
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Old 09-25-2019, 04:14 PM   #92
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yeah, thanks Sierra99 for your answers and insights.


Those keep my dream alive. But you are right, when you mention the resources of devs and time. I will wait, hope, and may be.. see
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Old 09-25-2019, 08:32 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Harlikwin View Post
Ah good, someone who knows what they are talking about. Thanks for the correction. I didn't realize the thing telescoped.

On the lateral boom note, if I'm reading that the boom should stabilize any sort of lateral movment? And also when coupled I assume the plane should be harder to roll or is there alot of play in that too?
The boom flies in every sense of the word. If you unlatch the boom on the ground...it will promptly fall to the pavement because the flight control surfaces of the boom (ruddervators for the -135 and elevators and Rudders for the KC-10) don’t have air flowing over them.

As such the boos are trimmed to trail at 30* and 0 Roll +- 3 degrees (?) if you fly the boom to the left or Right and let go...it will return to center.

As far as roll...no the receiver can do what he want right up to the point it starts bending and breaking stuff.
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Old 09-25-2019, 08:59 PM   #94
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Flying in formation behind a drogue is one thing. Flying underneath the KDC-10 or KC-135 is another! Can't wait to try that out
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Old 09-25-2019, 09:01 PM   #95
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As far as roll...no the receiver can do what he want right up to the point it starts bending and breaking stuff.
Wouldn't there be some sort of feedback/stabilization though? I guess I'm thinking about it like a U-jointy/floaty-shafty thing (sorry if that was too technical), I get that it can float around but the plan-boom-plane seems like it should be a sort of a linkage and you would have some physical feedback if you went too far before you broke things.
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Old 09-25-2019, 09:03 PM   #96
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Sensibly, I suppose that the boom control surfaces wouldn't need to be that large, as guiding a disconnected boom would be relatively easy and once connected to multiple tonnes of aircraft, they would be easily overriden by the pilot of the receiver?
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Old 09-25-2019, 09:04 PM   #97
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Flying in formation behind a drogue is one thing. Flying underneath the KDC-10 or KC-135 is another! Can't wait to try that out
Try it with the F15
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Old 09-25-2019, 09:24 PM   #98
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Try it with the F15
Well, I could if I owned it but I only have the high fidelity modules.
But with the F16 around the corner I don't have to wait much longer
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Old 09-26-2019, 12:10 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Harlikwin View Post
Wouldn't there be some sort of feedback/stabilization though? I guess I'm thinking about it like a U-jointy/floaty-shafty thing (sorry if that was too technical), I get that it can float around but the plan-boom-plane seems like it should be a sort of a linkage and you would have some physical feedback if you went too far before you broke things.
The boom will automatically disconnect when it gets near to limits, ideally before it breaks stuff. But the pilot of the jet still has to do his bit to hold position.
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Old 09-26-2019, 10:00 AM   #100
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The boom will automatically disconnect when it gets near to limits, ideally before it breaks stuff. But the pilot of the jet still has to do his bit to hold position.

Roger that. This "bit" is what I am here for to learn. At the moment the pilot has to do it all. I said it before and Harlikwin's description of a "magic zone" where fuel is flowing hits exactly what I feel while being connected: nothing.


Real boom operator said before something that lets me conclude: "nothing" is not how it should be according to reality.


So I'm satisfied with every little "bit" that provides a feeling. There is none yet.
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