SlipBall Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 I'm trying here to create more interest in the B-17 bomber. Maybe the cause is already lost but we can learn or read of great stories, maybe turn it (stretch goal) possibility around. Luthier want's 375,000. a real deal in the year 2013...sorry about the font size, wouldn't change for me :helpsmilie: "As a postscript to the B-17 story (and in response to various queries), here is some cost information on the B-17 Fortress. According to Peter Bowers's *Boeing Aircraft Since 1916" the cost of a B-17G when built in mass-produced quantities in 1943-44 was: Airframe $127,069 Engines $38,483 Propellers $11,900 Electronics $9,040 Ordnance $6,342 Miscellaneous equipment $45,495 --------- Total: $238,329 Sounds like small potatoes today!" " SEVERELY DAMAGED B-17 IN WWII.... Here's why the 17 may be the ruggedness aircraft ever built. Hard to see how a plane could fly is such a condition. A mid-air collision on February 1, 1943 between a B-17 and a German fighter over the Tunis dock area became the subject of one of the most famous photographs of World War II. An enemy fighter attacking a 97th Bomb Groupformation went out of control, probably with a wounded or dead pilot. The Me109 crashed into the lead aircraft of the flight, ripped a wing off the Fortress, and caused it to crash. The enemy fighter then continued its crashing descent into the rear of the fuselage of a Fortress named All American, piloted by Lt. Kendrick R. Bragg, of the 414th Bomb Squadron. When it struck, the fighter broke apart, but left some pieces in the B-17. The left horizontal stabilizer of the Fortress and left elevator were completely torn away. The two right engines were out and one on the left had a serious oil pump leak. The vertical fin and the rudder had been damaged, the fuselage had been cut almost completely through – connected only at two small parts of the frame and the radios, electrical and oxygen systems were damaged. There was also a hole in the top that was over 16 feet long and 4 feet wide at it’s widest and the split in the fuselage went all the way to the topgunner’s turret. Although the tail actually bounced and swayed in the wind and twisted when the plane turned and all the control cables were severed, except one single elevator cable still worked, and the aircraft still flew-miraculously! The tail gunner was trapped because there was no floor connecting the tail to the rest of the plane. The waist and tail gunners used parts of the German fighter and their own parachute harnesses in an attempt to keep the tail from ripping off and the two sides of the fuselage from splitting apart. While the crew was trying to keep the bomber from coming apart, the pilot continued on his bomb run and released his bombs over the target. When the Bombay doors were opened, the wind turbulence was so great that it blew one of the waist gunners into the broken tail section. It took several minutes and four crew members to pass him ropes from parachutes and haul himback into the forward part of the plane. When they tried to do the same for the tail gunner, the tail began flapping so hard that it began to break off. The weight of the gunner was adding some stability to the tail section, so he went back to his position. The turn back toward England had to be very slow to keep the tail from twisting off. They actually covered almost 70 miles to make the turn home. The bomber was so badly damaged that it was losing altitude and speed and was soon alone in the sky. For a brief time, two more Me109 German fighters attacked the All American. Despite the extensive damage, all of the machine gunners were able to respond to these attacks and soon drove off the fighters. The two waist gunners stood up with the headssticking out through the hole in the top of the fuselage to aim and fire their machine guns. The tail gunner had to shoot in short bursts because the recoil was actually causing the plane to turn. Allied P51 fighters intercepted the All American as it crossed over the Channel and took one of the pictures shown below. They also radioed to the base describing the empennage was “waving like a fish tail” and that the plane would not make it and to send out boats to rescue the crew when they bailed out. The fighters stayed with the Fortress taking hand signals from the Lt. Bragg and relaying them to the base. Lt. Bragg signaled that 5 parachutes and the spare had been "used" so five of the crew could not bailout. He made the decision that if they could not bail out safely, then he would stay with the plane and land it. Two and a half hours after being hit, the aircraft made its final turn to line up with the runway while it was still over 40 miles away. It descended into an emergency landing and a normal roll-out on its landing gear. When the ambulance pulled alongside, it was waved off because not a single member of the crew had been injured. No one could believe that the aircraft could still fly in such a condition. The Fortress sat placidly until the crew all existed through the door in the fuselage and the tail gunner had climbed down a ladder, at which time the entire rear section of the aircraft collapsed onto the ground. The rugged old bird had done its job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DBS]TH0R Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Any photos to supplement the story? :) Here are a couple of videos: ^^ R.I.P. Liberty Belle P8Z68 | 2500k @ 4.5 | GTX 1080Ti | 2x8 GB @ 1600 | TM Hog (extended 7cm) & MFG Crosswind (S/N 007) | TIR v5 WWII bomber formations | DCS P-51D: [TEST] TO distance / gross weight / temperature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royraiden Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Very nice guys!Im not a bomber guy but this one is a special bird that even I would dare to try it. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipBall Posted September 14, 2013 Author Share Posted September 14, 2013 (edited) Yes there are here's one and another Edited September 14, 2013 by GT 5.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morse Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 there are some other damaged b17 picture : http://peopleplacesandpastimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/b17-story-7.jpg http://www.tlarkins.net/stuff/military/b17survive4.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/B-17_Damage_Cologne.jpg http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/aircraft/b17-3.jpg http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/body/sidehole.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipBall Posted September 14, 2013 Author Share Posted September 14, 2013 Any photos to supplement the story? :) Here are a couple of videos: ^^ R.I.P. Liberty Belle Wow the first video is just awesome and seems a great teacher!!...thanks for posting:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipBall Posted September 14, 2013 Author Share Posted September 14, 2013 there are some other damaged b17 picture : http://peopleplacesandpastimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/b17-story-7.jpg http://www.tlarkins.net/stuff/military/b17survive4.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/B-17_Damage_Cologne.jpg http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/aircraft/b17-3.jpg http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/body/sidehole.jpg Those pictures are insane..thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baronWastelan Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Flight in a B-17G, including a cameo of a very happy DCS:WWII backer :D http://www.mediafire.com/watch/09smd0te0ea7eoq/B-17-909-Moffett-19May07.wmv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishtmail Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 If we don't hit 375k, I want Luthier to promise he will start working on this bird. I'll gladly pay $100 for the module if they set the price there. DCS A10C Warthog, DCS Black Shark 2, DCS P51D Mustang, DCS UH-1H Huey, DCS Mi-8MTV2 Magnificent Eight, Flaming Cliffs 3, Combined Arms System: Intel i7 4770k @4,2GHz; MSI Z87-G65; 16GB DDR3 1600 MHz RAM; 128GB SSD SATA3 (system disk); 2TB HDD SATA3 (games disk); Sapphire Radeon R9 290 Tri-X; Windows 7 64bit Flight controls: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog; Saitek Pro Flight Combat Rudder; TrackIR 5; Thrustmaster F16 MFDs; 2x 8'' LCD screens (VGA) for MFD display; 27'' LG LCD full HD main display Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DBS]TH0R Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 I'd pay 200$ for a DCS WWII: B-17 module... Wow the first video is just awesome and seems a great teacher!!...thanks for posting:D YW. :) P8Z68 | 2500k @ 4.5 | GTX 1080Ti | 2x8 GB @ 1600 | TM Hog (extended 7cm) & MFG Crosswind (S/N 007) | TIR v5 WWII bomber formations | DCS P-51D: [TEST] TO distance / gross weight / temperature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipBall Posted September 14, 2013 Author Share Posted September 14, 2013 I'd pay 200$ for a DCS WWII: B-17 module... YW. :) I just posted this in the kickstarter comments page...I think that its a good idea and gives us all a chance, including Luthier " Maybe we can convince llya by reaching a new stretch goal yet to be added here. That would give us the southern England map extension aprox 09-14, and delivery of the B-17 one year latter 09-15 but the aircraft would be an additional charge at that time of delivery...say 80.00 or what ever they think its worth" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royraiden Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 there are some other damaged b17 picture : http://peopleplacesandpastimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/b17-story-7.jpg http://www.tlarkins.net/stuff/military/b17survive4.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/B-17_Damage_Cologne.jpg http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/aircraft/b17-3.jpg http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/body/sidehole.jpg And all of those were damaged in the air, meaning that they made it back??:shocking::shocking: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morse Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 And all of those were damaged in the air, meaning that they made it back??:shocking::shocking: yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hegykc Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Yep, and were full of 20-something crew that brought them back, and went up, time and time again. How's that for courage. www.replikagear.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfreddie Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Not everyone made it home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfreddie Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Other photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 So one B-17 dropped their bombs through another B-17's elevator? That's… that's kind of a dick move right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morse Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 look that B24 liberator at the end : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipBall Posted September 15, 2013 Author Share Posted September 15, 2013 So one B-17 dropped their bombs through another B-17's elevator? That's… that's kind of a dick move right there. Yea someone wasn't paying attention in the combat box in which they flew at differing altitudes for protection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabyJail Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Oh boy, flying bomber formations like that over Normandy in a DCS quality B-17 would be a dream come true! :pilotfly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uther Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 So one B-17 dropped their bombs through another B-17's elevator? That's… that's kind of a dick move right there. And, unlike in a game, I think everyone in that B17 died. i5 4690k / MSI Gaming 5 / 2 x 8 GB Crucial Ballistix ram / Zotac AMP! 980Ti / 2 x 250 SSDs Flight Controls:Virpil VPC MoogoosT-50 / MFG Crosswinds / GVL Throttle / Oculus Rift CV1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAnker737 Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Great post thanks guys [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Intel i7 3930K @ 4.7Ghz | 980ti | 32gb Ram | Windows 10 64 bit | 840 Pro SSD Thrustmaster Warthog | VKB Gunfighter Pro | Slaw Device RX Viper | Acer Predator X34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipBall Posted September 15, 2013 Author Share Posted September 15, 2013 Another thing is that they were ordered to hold their position in the box, no evasive maneuvering if under attack. Since that order was given, they had 25% less aircraft loses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRIGGBOY81 Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 omg this gets more fantastic, i really hope they get their target. i7 4820k@4.6, msi big bang xpower ii, 840 pro ssd for os and games, 840 evo ssd for media, full custom water loop, dell u2713hm, warthog hotas and because thats how i roll. :pilotfly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DBS]TH0R Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Yea someone wasn't paying attention in the combat box in which they flew at differing altitudes for protection That is actually a wrong depiction of a combat box. Left and right 3 ship elements are on the wrong altitude (note the pilot position in the B-17). Here is a proper dissection of tactics and various other formations they used, including 18 ship COMBAT BOX developed in late 1943 / early 1944: 18 & 21 ship formations And since I do have substantial experience in flying large bomber formations in IL2, yes - holding a proper station all the time is not an easy task. Especially with wake turbulence those beasts left behind... P8Z68 | 2500k @ 4.5 | GTX 1080Ti | 2x8 GB @ 1600 | TM Hog (extended 7cm) & MFG Crosswind (S/N 007) | TIR v5 WWII bomber formations | DCS P-51D: [TEST] TO distance / gross weight / temperature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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