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What to do with this module?


imacken

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After several frustrating and - eventually! - fun weeks with the Spit, I am just wondering what we actually do with it.

I mean after becoming (reasonably) competent in take off/landing and some dogfight Instant Action, what is there to do? Flying around Caucusus visiting airfields has a limit!

There are no campaigns or missions that I can see. I guess when Normandy is released then there might be some campaigns/missions, but for now?

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After several frustrating and - eventually! - fun weeks with the Spit, I am just wondering what we actually do with it.

I mean after becoming (reasonably) competent in take off/landing and some dogfight Instant Action, what is there to do? Flying around Caucusus visiting airfields has a limit!

There are no campaigns or missions that I can see. I guess when Normandy is released then there might be some campaigns/missions, but for now?

 

fly online and kill 109/190s...

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Yep, the real purpose of all this thing is going online. With-against humans, even in the same map, the same missions, it's quite different every time and a whole different experience. Have a go, though bear in mind those flying online already have a lot of combat experience against humans. Don't leave it right at the beginning in case you don't get the results you expect, it requires some time getting used to that scenario.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

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So how does this thing work, guys?

Is it just a case of a bunch of people in different planes just randomly shooting at each other, or is there some kind of structure to it all?

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:lol: :lol: :lol: Well, it depends on the server, but right now they usually are dogfight servers were you can battle others separated by sides. There can be some ground targets, or not, the mission can be more immediate with really close airbases, or not, the mission can feature IAs to add some targets, or not, but more or less that's what we have at the moment. Way more complex missions can be done, but that means gathering with more people and launching the mission with all of the seats taken at the same time to be coordinated. That's a different story.

 

 

Look for ACG server, Burning Skies, or any featuring WWII stuff. There should be 4 to 5 at least at the moment. Check the number of people online at the moment, and that's all. Some servers give information about team speak servers you can join so you won't be alone on the side you pic.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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My only experience of this was a little sortie with Krupi when he was helping with my landing.

So there is some kind of structure? I guess with dogfights with two sides, then is it just a case of jumping in, doing a bit of fighting and stopping when you feel like it, or are dead?

I like specific challenges that campaigns and individual missions provide. There you can see an ultimate goal rather than a bit of a skirmish.

However, as I said, I have not tried this, so maybe it'll be fun!

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Look for ACG server, Burning Skies, or any featuring WWII stuff. There should be 4 to 5 at least at the moment.

 

Be warned that most people in dogfight server are veterans with thousand of hours in online combat, avid for novice appears for they "chew up". :megalol:

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My only experience of this was a little sortie with Krupi when he was helping with my landing.

So there is some kind of structure? I guess with dogfights with two sides, then is it just a case of jumping in, doing a bit of fighting and stopping when you feel like it, or are dead?

I like specific challenges that campaigns and individual missions provide. There you can see an ultimate goal rather than a bit of a skirmish.

However, as I said, I have not tried this, so maybe it'll be fun!

 

It's usually Axis vs Allies. So P51D & Spit, vs 109 and Fw190D. It's great fun on burning skies. Make sure you turn on labels in the options as there is a little label mod the server runs that makes it easier to spot planes at a distance.

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Be warned that most people in dogfight server are veterans with thousand of hours in online combat, avid for novice appears for they "chew up". :megalol:

That's why I usually avoid any online multiplayer thing!

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It's usually Axis vs Allies. So P51D & Spit, vs 109 and Fw190D. It's great fun on burning skies. Make sure you turn on labels in the options as there is a little label mod the server runs that makes it easier to spot planes at a distance.

I went on Burning Skies a couple of times, and couldn't see any other planes. I have labels on, but couldn't see any!

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well then start getting better at spotting

 

there's plenty of things for you to do, you just seem to not want to do any of them

 

Come on, he's looking for a little mentoring or something. You're a vet. Provide a little support or encouragement.

 

I admit, with the current spotting capabilities, my old eyes can't see much of what is going on unless I'm on top of it.

 

All good, and all the best for our DCS community.

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So how does thisthing work, guys?

Is it just a case of a bunch of people in different planes just randomlyshooting at each other, or is there some kind of structure to it all?

So, it depends on how the server owner has set things up, and whether or not you are part of an organized group of players. Many of us joined "virtual squadrons" so that we would have wingmen to fly with regularly.

At the moment, the server offering is quite poor in DCS, partly because the DCS multiplayer architecture is very limited when compared to the competition. You can really only expect 20 to 30 players,max, and a few hundred grounds objects before things start lagging and falling over (a far cry from the 80-100 players + 20-50 AI aircraft and 10,000 objectsyou could have in, say, Cliffs of Dover!)

Another problem DCS has is that there areso many servers online, with many of them just replicating the same crap, and no-one flying in them. So the server list (when you open multiplayer) is a messy web of garbage, and you can spend 30 minutes trying to work out what each server is offering.

 

Also, the most popular online server forWW2 flying, "Burning Skies", is really just an empty map with a couple of bases 10 minutes flying time apart. It's a "dogfight" server.. so basically you take off, look for an enemy, fight.. and then rinse and repeat. It's great for "learning" but offers little in the way of immersion or strategy.

 

Hopefully, when the Normandy map is released we will start to see some more inventive/ creative multiplayer servers, maybe with some persistency built in... but a lot of this depends on whether or not ED are committed to making multiplayer more accessible, stable and detailed (for mission makers and server owners).

So.. what can a new player expect?

Firstly, online fighting is HARD work. Humans players will not go easy on you, and will chew you up. We all went through this when we decided to first go online. Back in the IL2 days, when I first stated online simming, I thought I was a bit of an "ace"offline. I went online and had my botty tanned for ages before I finally started finding my feet. Then Cliffs of Dover came out and I had to go through it all again.. then I switched to DCS (when the spitfire came out late lastyear) and I am still only finding my feet 4 months later!

So, you have to be prepared to be smashed like a fly on the window, over and over again. . . but you will get better. You'll learn to look for enemies. You'll start to learn evasive maneuvers thatwork. Then.. maybe.. you'll start getting some victories.

Try to "wing up" with a more experienced player whenever you can. Install teamspeak and chat with other players on that. It will help.

 

Also "spotting" aircraft is a REAL pain in DCS, much harder than any other flight sim I have played. For some reason the aircraft will blend into the ground or sea textures in a way that I've never encountered before. Some servers have had to adopt tricks via "mods" to try and get around this. It is the result of DCS originally being built for Jet combat, when often seeing an enemy with the eyeball is less important than the RADAR contact. But for WW2 flying - seeing is everything!

Hope that wall of text helps. . .


Edited by philstyle

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/philstylenz

Storm of War WW2 server website: https://stormofwar.net/

 

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well then start getting better at spotting

 

there's plenty of things for you to do, you just seem to not want to do any of them

That is a completely unhelpful and unnecessary comment.

I am completely new to the whole multiplayer aspect of DCS, and was/am simply asking for some help and information.

If you can't offer either of these, then perhaps it would be best not to post here.

Fortunately for me, there are others here who have adopted a very helpful attitude.

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So, it depends on how the server owner has set things up, and whether or not you are part of an organized group ofplayers. Many of us joined "virtual squadrons" so that we would have wingmen to fly with regularly.

At the moment, the server offering is quite poor in DCS, partly because the DCS multiplayer architecture is very limited when compared to the competition. You can really only expect 20 to 30 players,max, and a few hundred grounds objects before things start lagging and falling over (a far cry from the 80-100 players + 20-50 AI aircraft and 10,000 objectsyou could have in, say, Cliffs of Dover!)

Another problem DCS has is that there areso many servers online, with many of them just replicating the same crap, and no-one flying in them. So the server list (when you open multiplayer) is a messy web of garbage, and you can spend 30 minutes trying to work out what each server is offering.

Also, the most popular online server forWW2 flying, "Burning Skies", is really just an empty map with a couple of bases 10 minutes flying time apart. It's a "dogfight" server.. so basically you take off, look for an enemy, fight.. and then rinse and repeat. It's great for "learning" but offers little in the way of immersion or strategy.

 

Hopefully, when the Normandy map is released we will start to see some more inventive/ creative multiplayer servers, maybe with some persistency built in... but a lot of this depends onwhether or not ED are committed to making multiplayer more accessible, stable and detailed (for mission makers and server owners).

So.. what can a new player expect?

Firstly, online fighting is HARD work. Humans players will not go easy on you, and will chew you up. We all went through this when we decided to first go online. Back in the IL2 days, when I first stated online simming, I thought I was a bit of an "ace"offline. I went online and had my botty tanned for ages before I finally started finding my feet. Then Cliffs of Dover came out and I had to go through it all again.. then I switched to DCS (when the spitfire came out late lastyear) and I am still only finding my feet 4 months later!

So, you have to be prepared to bit smashed like a fly on the window, over and over again. . . but you will get better. You'll learn to look for enemies. You'll start to learn evasive maneuvers thatwork. Then.. maybe.. you'll start getting some victories.

Try to "wing up" with a more experienced player whenever you can. Install teamspeak and chat with other players on that. It will help.

 

Also "spotting" aircraft is a REAL pain in DCS, much harder than any other flight sim I have played. For somereason the aircraft will blend into the ground or sea textures in a way that I've never encountered before. Some servers have had to adopt tricks via"mods" to try and get around this. It is the result of DCS originally being built for Jet combat, when often seeing an emery with the eyeball isless important than the RADAR contact. But for WW2 flying - seeing iseverything!

Hope that wall of text helps. . .

 

Thanks a lot, Phil. I really appreciate the effort put into that reply.

That is the first impression I got of Burning Skies, which is why I was asking about structure.

Regarding your last comment about the spotting difficulty in DCS, I feel you could be right about the jet aspect and reliance on radar. Even in the Spit combat training mission, I find it impossible to find the two aircraft if I lose them initially!

Labels are obviously helpful, albeit unrealistic. Someone mentioned that Burning Skies has labels, but I don't see them.

Thanks again for your time.

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I went on Burning Skies a couple of times, and couldn't see any other planes. I have labels on, but couldn't see any!

 

Ok a couple of tips. Run DCS at your native resolution. Turn OFF all Antialiasing. Not only will this help with your frame-rate, it will go a long way towards improving spotting. Unfortunately the way spotting works at the moment, AA will blend the "dots" of contacts in the distance and make them more difficult to spot. The labels that Burning Skies uses really only make the contacts slightly bigger in the distance, they are not readily apparent.

 

It will still be hard, but it will get easier with practice. Don't worry if you can't spot anyone at first. It takes a lot of practice and patience. I can sort of do it now regularly, but I still lose people in the merge. ED is working on this issue and will probably get a few things sorted by the time Normandy ships.

 

Most importantly don't give up. Remember: starting up, taking off, flying around and landing is a successful sortie! Any sortie where you don't end up in a ball of flames is considered successful! :)

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Someone mentioned that Burning Skies has labels, but I don't see them.

Thanks again for your time.

 

So, on B-skies they edited the "labels" to be a grey-black coloured marker that is visible from 8km (max I think).

It's slightly better than the default setting, but it's not a text label like you see in single player. They replaced the "text" that you see in a vanilla game, with a symbolic "dot"..

 

 

When you join the server, you have to press left-shift + F10 keys to "enable" labels. This will mean that you can see this "dot". However, don't expect wonders. I would say it makes contact spotting about 25% easier than normal.

Also, the bigger your monitor (physical size in cm), the easier it will be to spot contacts. I've found this to be true in every single flight sim I've ever flown.

 

It takes a long, long time when playing full-realism online to learn to spot aircraft. My advice is to prioritise your looking in the area of sky behind and above. Think about protecting your ass as your first job. "Hunting" as an aggressor is secondary.

 

Also, try to get online with someone else. Practice flying away from each other and seeing how far away you can still see each other. Then make some turns and try to maintain visual contact. Look away, and then look back to see how long it takes you to re-acquire the contact...

Do some aggressive maneuvers and see if you can maintain visual contact during..

 

 

Practice is important, like any skill out there. If you can find some simple "drills" like the above to practice then you will improve.


Edited by philstyle

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/philstylenz

Storm of War WW2 server website: https://stormofwar.net/

 

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When you join the server, you have to press left-shift + F10 keys to "enable" labels.

 

Just to add to this and remove a potential source of confusion. If you have labels enabled by default in your game options, pressing LSHIFT + F10 will disable them.

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Be warned that most people in dogfight server are veterans with thousand of hours in online combat, avid for novice appears for they "chew up". :megalol:
It's been repeatedly said over this same post, but that's why I tried to cheer him up a couple of responses earlier,

 

Yep, the real purpose of all this thing is going online. With-against humans, even in the same map, the same missions, it's quite different every time and a whole different experience. Have a go, though bear in mind those flying online already have a lot of combat experience against humans. Don't leave it right at the beginning in case you don't get the results you expect, it requires some time getting used to that scenario.
:thumbup:

 

 

I went on Burning Skies a couple of times, and couldn't see any other planes. I have labels on, but couldn't see any!
Yes, as fellows already explained, spotting is inherently difficult to DCS at the moment (a solution is on the work AFAIK). Anyway don't give up, you can learn the clues to spotting aircraft, and that BS server aid with labels can help either. Always check the number of people online in a server at joining, but also during your flight. Should by coincidence be only a few people at the beginning when you join the server, they can leave and go unnoticed, so there is a chance you are truly alone in a server. People online is seen at the briefing and aircraft selection screens IIRC. Also, check for the combat areas, they are usually amid the way from both available bases. You can ask in the chat where is the action as well, sometimes it moves and finding enemies is not so easy. Then again, also check the numbers every team have, sometimes on side gets all the pilots while the other is almost alone, if there are say 8 allied pilots and only 2 Germans it will be really difficult to find them, and it happens more usually than one can think, so it's always better trying to even the teams at joining.

 

 

Anyhow, multiplayer is a tough world, plenty of very experienced people to cope with and that's true for any game out there, so DCS is any different. But gaining experience is not a so bad time, and every kill they make at you is a lesson to be learnt. It can be important to fly with more people, being alone in multiplayer can be a bit stressing and disappointing at first, but even getting killed online is better with more people to comment and may be teach you some things if you need so.

 

 

S!


Edited by Ala13_ManOWar

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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Ok a couple of tips. Run DCS at your native resolution. Turn OFF all Antialiasing.

If I ran at native - 5120x2880 - I wouldn't be able to see anything! :) I run at 2560x1440. Good tip though.

When you join the server, you have to press left-shift + F10 keys to "enable" labels. This will mean that you can see this "dot". However, don't expect wonders. I would say it makes contact spotting about 25% easier than normal.

Also, the bigger your monitor (physical size in cm), the easier it will be to spot contacts. I've found this to be true in every single flight sim I've ever flown.

 

It takes a long, long time when playing full-realism online to learn to spot aircraft. My advice is to prioritise your looking in the area of sky behind and above. Think about protecting your ass as your first job. "Hunting" as an aggressor is secondary.

 

Also, try to get online with someone else. Practice flying away from each other and seeing how far away you can still see each other. Then make some turns and try to maintain visual contact. Look away, and then look back to see how long it takes you to re-acquire the contact...

Do some aggressive maneuvers and see if you can maintain visual contact during..

 

 

Practice is important, like any skill out there. If you can find some simple "drills" like the above to practice then you will improve.

As usual, some excellent tips there, Phil. Thanks!

Just to add to this and remove a potential source of confusion. If you have labels enabled by default in your game options, pressing LSHIFT + F10 will disable them.

Does that mean if I have labels enabled, then I don't have to do anything? The labels should show up?

 

So, I did a little sortie on B-skies. I flew from Novorossiysk to Anapa and back - and survived! Although, to be fair, I think there were only 2 enemy planes on the whole map! I did get shot at near Anapa though. Could that have been ground artillery?

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Does that mean if I have labels enabled, then I don't have to do anything? The labels should show up?

 

 

Yes.

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Hey Imacken,

 

I am in the middle of moving at the moment but I hope to be flying again sometime in the next week or two.

 

I think Phil nailed DCS Online with his previous comment, however do not get turned off by the seemingly negative remarks from some posters, yes it is hard online... the learning curve is steep and you have to prepared to die :D however it is tremendous fun especially when you are flying with Teamspeak.

 

Once Normandy is out then things will change I am sure, I cannot wait for more tactic based online servers :)

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Hey Imacken,

 

I am in the middle of moving at the moment but I hope to be flying again sometime in the next week or two.

 

I think Phil nailed DCS Online with his previous comment, however do not get turned off by the seemingly negative remarks from some posters, yes it is hard online... the learning curve is steep and you have to prepared to die :D however it is tremendous fun especially when you are flying with Teamspeak.

 

Once Normandy is out then things will change I am sure, I cannot wait for more tactic based online servers :)

I wondered why you've been so quiet!

Give me a shout when you're back in the game and maybe we could have a little hook up again. I'll try and get some practice in!

I hope the house move goes OK!

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