Newcomers noob questions

Hi guys

Looking for some friendly advice please :helpsmilie:

I’ve really enjoyed playing the free version of the P51 via DCS World but I’m now at a cross roads as taking off and landing is no longer enough.

What I want to do is fly combat missions. From what I’ve read the full game campaign mode doesn’t involve too many of these in the single player environment. This leaves the multiplayer aspect but any reviews I've read suggest finding WW2 servers is quite a challenge.

Can you guys suggest any WW2 servers?

Perhaps I should reword that question.

Are there any noob friendly WW2 servers out there?

To expand on that I don’t have hours and hours of experience but I've really enjoyed my time learning the P51. I can’t commit dedicated hours nor can I commit to spending silly amounts of money for DLC or hardware.

Whilst writing I suppose it’s worth asking all the other noob question that I have!

1) Is it best to run the game independently or via Steam?

2) Are there WW2 servers out there that don’t require the Normandy 1944 map + WW2 assets pack?

3) Are the DLC's via DCS ever on sale? If so is this frequent and what kind of discounts are thrown about? What’s the best way to find out about these offers if they exist?

4) Dare I say it but are there other P51 combat misson options available if DCS doesn’t work out? (I don’t want this question to read disrespectfully as I appreciate this is a DCS forum. Just looking for some honest feedback from other sim players)

Thanks to all for taking the time to read and for any replies/advise. :thumbup:

I prefer DCS direct as opposed to steam. Steam seams to lag behind in features. Have you checked out the Download section? I count 20 user created missions (single user, not multiplayer).

The DLC for P51D is $9.99 (not steam compatible) and they do go on sale form time to time as a bundle. If you signed up for the email service (in the Profile section after you login) you'll get a notice every time a module/DLC goes on sale.

I feel all servers should be noob friendly... that is, don't expect to score a ton of victories, rather go in with expectations that you will learn from your mistakes. Fly a sortie, figure out what happened and if you don't know exactly what happened, run the replay. There is a free program that helps review flight data called tacview... it is essential if your goal is learning. I'm not positive about the state of the servers, however I run DCS independently. The reasoning being is that some modules DO NOT work with steam. Don't get me wrong I love steam and streamlining everything is an attractive prospect, but unfortunately DCS integration into steam is not a "current" experience. The DLC's frequently go on sale... usually whenever there is not development news you'll see a bunch of sales being thrown around. Usually there are bundles where you can save 10-20 USD and sometimes I see like %40 off and such. I think there is usually a summer sale, and I believe there are some packages on sale now. As far as I know DCS is the only modern depiction of the P-51... your next best hope would be IL-2, but they have stated they are moving forwards with Kuban and then Midway... no 51's there. My best advice would be to save up (or splurge) on the Normandy map/Assets pack and install the standalone DCS 2.1. A word of caution this product is in Alpha, so developments are always incoming, but problems do exist... DCS can be for casual players, but it is not a casual game. Expect to blow your engine when pursuing a 109, or induce a asymmetric wing stall when trying to evade the Dora; expect to damage or destroy yourself with dropped ordnance when flying too low, to strafe yourself into the ground, but also, if you're an open person, expect to meet some really charming and knowledgeable people, laugh and learn from your mistakes, and have some great fun! This is the best community there exist for this type of flight simulation experience. period.

If you had asked this a month ago you would have been told there were many WW2 servers but when Normandy was released anyone running a WW2 server predictably wanted to do it with a more suitable terrain. I am not sure what you want from a 'noob friendly server' There are servers set up just to practice or fly acrobatics with no combat but you want combat which means people will want to kill you and wont know (or care) that you are not skilled as they are :-)

I think there may still be a few servers left using WW2 fighters on the old map but they wont be gentle on you. Like the rest of us, you will just have to die repeatedly until you get good enough to kill them first. They should be friendly though if you find a server where everyone uses the same Teamspeak. Ask politely and they will answer. The nice thing about games like this is that we don't get the loud brats out to impress people with how gangsta they are. Swearing every other word for the sake of it and taunting people is rare and likely to get you ignored, blocked or banned.

In terms of alternatives, if you just want to fly around making things go boom and not caring if you die because there is always a furball within 1 minute of taking off again then Warthunder is popular. If you want more immersion and realism then Cliffs Of Dover is very cheap to buy and despite a shakey start is now vastly improved and very good. It is mostly based in the Battle Of Britain so no P51s. Just Spits, Hurricanes, 109s and bombers. It is about to get a new map set in North Africa so expect to also see P39s or P40s but this upgrade will be a paid one. The other alternative is a set of games now collectively known as BoX because it embraces 'Battle Of Moscow (BoM), Battle Of Stalingrad (BoS) we expect 'Battle Of Pacific' in the future. Many people like it. It is quite realistic and quite popular.

They all have things they do better than the others and things that others beat them on, and that includes DCS which is the most realistic in terms of flight models and cockpit switches, engine management requirements etc but not really that good on multiplayer gameplay and scenarios and limited in aircraft. Cliffs Of Dover is not quite so good on flight models and not so detailed in engine management but has a better damage model, more aircraft (and no need to pay to use any) and servers with up 80 players in one place as well as regular recreations or replays of famous battles or events & detailed offline campaigns. I don't know BoX that well but it is supposed to be a credible alternative to DCS & CLoD. I will certainly be taking a look if they get the Pacific map going as nobody is doing that any more (technically IL2 still has Pacific servers but, groundbreaking as it once was, it is now a bit dated)

One idea for getting better in DCS is to try the offline combat missions. They will at least show you what your aircraft does well and what things will get you killed. Be warned though that even if you become the boss of all the offline AI enemies, and they can be pretty skilled, you will still get a shock when you come back online and try a human opponent as we humans are a lot more unpredictable :-) On the other hand there *must* be enemies with less skill than you out there. Even with decades of online combat flying under my belt I am crap and you might kill easily kill me :-)

NOTE: I see a precious answer referring to IL2 and actually meaning what I called 'BoX' so I will explain that. The granddaddy of realistic multiplayer flightsims was a game called IL2. It truly was groundbreaking in its realism and graphics at the time and I believe it still has a large following despite being quite old now and looking a bit dated. It has about 100 different aircraft and many different places to fight eg The Eastern Front, New Guinea, Carriers in the Pacific, Europe of course. The people who wrote that then wrote Cliffs Of Dover but the marketing guys forced them to release it too early and it was very buggy and slow and unfinished. They then got bought up by another company who abandoned Cliffs and started what was to be the BoX games which are technically called IL2 Battle Of Stalingrad' etc. Meanwhile, a group of talented Cliffs Of Dover players decided to see if they could fix the problems with the abandoned game and despite not having access to the source code managed to fix it and make it twice as good as the original product would have been had it been finished; all in their spare time! That team has now been hired by the BoX owners to develop it further with access to the source code and money and resources but that means future updates and modules will be sold rather than given away for love. To summarise we have the original IL2, IL2 BoX etc and IL2 Cliffs Of Dover plus DCS which is nothing to do with IL2.

Get with an experienced player. The fastest way to learn is from someone who explains what to look for. Although it's likely any experienced player interested in the Mustang is flying the Normandy map.

Here are some concise answers to your questions:

1) Is it best to run the game independently or via Steam?

Definitely run the game independently. It's ok to buy a module on Steam if it's cheaper there. You can use it in the independent install. It will save you a lot of hassle.

2) Are there WW2 servers out there that don’t require the Normandy 1944 map + WW2 assets pack?

Most of these will be moving away from the free Caucasus terrain, now that Normandy is out. I don't expect you will see many players there. Normandy will be the way to go if you like flying WW2 aircraft.

WW2 servers are quite popular so you shouldn't have a problem finding one that is populated (eg. Burning Skies)

3) Are the DLC's via DCS ever on sale? If so is this frequent and what kind of discounts are thrown about? What’s the best way to find out about these offers if they exist?

Yes, sales come along quite frequently. You'll know about them if you're signed up to the DCS newsletter. Generally discounts are up to around 20%.

4) Dare I say it but are there other P51 combat misson options available if DCS doesn’t work out? (I don’t want this question to read disrespectfully as I appreciate this is a DCS forum. Just looking for some honest feedback from other sim players)

There is a DLC campaign called "High Stakes" which is in the Caucasus map. Expect much more mission content to emerge with Normandy.

My advice: Invest in Normandy to have the full experience.

Take EXTRA caution where you buy the DLC and modules !!!!!!!!

Things have changed in how and what can be cross activated. Afaik no new releases ( the P-51 is an OLD release ) will be allowed to be activated cross-wise, it's an either-or situation for any new module.

I highly recommend the standalone version ! Much more freedom and multiple installs ( stable beta alpha ) are possible. It's quicker in everything as well compared to Steam.

I like Steam for many other games but not for DCS.

Guys

Thanks a lot for all the replies and answers. A lot of extra information for me to think about. I appreciate it. :thumbup: :)

Further to the replies, in no particular order:

I was swaying towards running the game independently. In fact I actually removed DCS from Steam when I saw that a lot of DLC wasn't compatible with it. That's one thing off the list.

Time for me to get signed up for the email service to keep an eye out for sales. Wasn't aware of that so that's a bonus

"Noob friendly" Fair point Pheonix0869 & Roblex. There was/is no danger of me expecting any combat victory in the near future! What I don't want to do is invest in the game, DLC etc then find a server or servers full of internet tough guys which you mention. Perhaps multiplayer is still a step to far at the moment.

Cliffs of Dover sounds an interesting alternative which I'll look into. However for some reason I'm only interested in the P51 for now.

Can anyone elaborate on the offline combat missions? e.g. is it only dog fighting?

Just to be clear regarding a comment made by Phoenix0869 - "My best advice would be to save up (or splurge) on the Normandy map/Assets pack and install the standalone DCS 2.1. A word of caution this product is in Alpha, so developments are always incoming, but problems do exist... "

What exactly is in the alpha state? Normandy map? Assets pack? DCS 2.1? From my understanding I'm running DCS 1.5.6 so does this mean that I can't run the Normandy pack or Asset pack? Apologies if this is a thicket question I'd rather ask now before committing.

Thanks as always for your time & advises :thumbup::)

What exactly is in the alpha state? Normandy map? Assets pack? DCS 2.1? From my understanding I'm running DCS 1.5.6 so does this mean that I can't run the Normandy pack or Asset pack?

Well, pretty much all of the three above :D. Map is brand spankin' new, hardware-hungry and in dire need of serious optimization, assets pack is incomplete, with more units being worked on than released ones (for now); 2.1 version of the game engine, with multiple new gfx features still in need of performance optimizations and tweaking.

The map requires separate 2.1 installation to run, so indeed, you cannot use it in 1.5.6. You can use the assets pack in it, but if you check the prices it's much better deal to buy a map+assets bundle. No need to hurry, however (in my opinion).

Anyway, tomorrow some hefty update for 2.1 is scheduled to be released, so we'll see how well all those new goodies will run then.

 

Can anyone elaborate on the offline combat missions? e.g. is it only dog fighting?

 

You can write your own to do whatever you want but I am guessing you would not want to learn how. Most of the 'Instant' offline missions will be dogfighting but I know there is a whole Campaign available that will only cost you $10 and includes ground support & ground attack as well as dogfighting.

P-51D High Stakes Campaign

Requires DCS World version 1.5!

 

The "P-51D: High Stakes" campaign is a single-player, story-driven campaign for DCS: P-51D Mustang. The premise of the campaign is that a powerful businessman and gambler named "Maslov" has employed the pilot-for-hire pilot Vasily Sinitsa with promises of mountains of money. In return, Vasily needs to fly and master the venerable Mustang over a string of 15 missions that will test his skills. Maslov will put the Vasily at more risk as the campaign progresses and Vasily will need to use all his skills to not only to fulfill his assigned tasks but to also save his life and, in the long run, his honor.

Look here https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/campaigns/

First, you should get a plane that interests you. P51 you said you like so that's a runner up.

Then get a SP mission with a few AI drones without armament and train your shooting there (it's easily made with the mission editor, just put their ammo count to 0%). Try dead 6'clock shots and deflection shots, get a feeling for how crosshair, projectiles and everything behaves. I suggest this to lessen the early MP frustration. BTW: Don't try full dogfighting against armed AI... that won't teach you anything or even worse, might teach you bad habits. Stick with unarmed drones, they try to evade (sometimes...) and present ample shooting opportunities in varying situations.

Then, when you can comfortably put some bullets into the AI drones from varying ranges at 6'clock, you can hit the MP servers. For that, you'll need the Normandy Map+Assets pack(!). You could try to wait for a sale to get them in a bundle for a fair price. Any WW2 action will be running on that map so it'll become a must-buy. As many have told you, when you start MPing for the first time, you'll die.... alot.... That's the harsh school of Combat Flight Sims. be prepared mentally:D

As many have told you, when you start MPing for the first time, you'll die.... alot.... That's the harsh school of Combat Flight Sims. be prepared mentally

It is also very sobering to think that many pilots did this for real They trained & trained in a safe location with instructors until they felt they were invincible and would be an ace within a week then they went into combat for the first time and died on their first mission without getting a chance to learn from their mistakes and try again. On the other hand, in DCS you are facing people that have died hundreds of times and got better whereas in the real WW2 those people also died early. I suppose it was one thing on Britains side during the Battle Of Britain, many of the RAF pilots were shot down and bailed out and fought again having learned a lesson while the LW pilots either ended up in prison or died trying to cross back over the Channel.

I haven't done it in a while, but you can create a training mission with enemy AC set to be passive, which means they will do nothing when you attack them, other than fly their set paths.

You can create a number of such flights and give them an 'Orbit' flight path (described in the DCS manual) so that they simply fly a circuitous path over and over again... until you've shot them down, of course :D

Getting up behind an enemy and shooting up his tail is the easiest of your combat tasks. Diving in on an enemy from an angle is by far more difficult. You have to start leading the target already in your dive otherwise you will simply come up behind him, because he's moving further away, while you are simply following.

Anyway, with the target AC flying orbits, they never fly off and disappear, and if you've lost energy from maneuvering and it takes you a while to climb back up to the altitude from which you want to train your attacks, you then have all the time in the world, because your targets will always be there... except the ones you have already shot down ;)

Guys - many thanks for replies once more :thumbup:

Art-J

Wow - Normandy maps, asset pack and 2.1 all in alpha! On that basis I think I'll wait until I buy any of them. I would prefer everything to be in place and stable before I try and enjoy all 3! On that note and given the experience you guys have with DCS what kind of timescales do you think would be realistic to expect the map, pack and 2.1 to leave alpha state and be stable/finalised?

Roblex

I'd read about the High Stakes campaign but didn't realise that it included ground support/attack. I think that might be the way to go for just now. It will give me more experience and offer me more than just taking off and landing.

Arglmauf

A good shout removing the ammo from the AI in a single player game. Again that will give me some much needed experience.

Captain Orso

Another good tip - thanks. Again that should give me a new experience and help rack up some more hours.

As it the way another question!

As previously mentioned I'm running version 1.5. I assume if I buy High Stakes now it should run fine?

If in the future (when DCS 2.0 , asset pack and Normandy maps are finalised) I buy the assets pack and map do I uninstall version 1.5, install 2.0 then buy the pack and maps? What happens to the High Stakes DLC?

As always my thanks for your time and comments.

Timescale prediction is pretty much impossible at this moment, even based on our past experiences. On one hand, compared to other sim dev studios, ED is... uhm... let's just say NOT known for rapid development pace (to put it very mildly...), but in the last newsletter we've been told that finishing the Normandy project (including units) has a very high priority now.

Still, they've been working on quite a few AI airplanes, ships and ground vehicles, also completely rewritten damage model for planes.... Plus, the new lighting engine introduced in 2.1 is so new tech that even ED probably cannot strictly predict how long tuning its performance and adjusting textures on all units is going to take.

All and all, for a complete WWII experience (all announced/planned units, revised damage modelling, polished map), I would be optimist with a late-this-year prediction, and a realist with next-spring prediction. Which obviously brings a question of how "good enough" us acceptable for you as far as your purchasing decisions are concerned. Everyone has his own idea of what the good moment for buying the early-access content is.

In the future, when the current Caucasus map is completely reworked, there will be no 1.5.x, as all the content will be moved to one, big merged 2.5.x version. Will the High Stakes campaign still work then? If its author updates/converts it, then it will, if not, then it will not. But since we're not expecting the Big Merge this summer anyway, you've still got plenty of time to play it under 1.5.6.