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Old 06-23-2018, 01:26 PM   #1951
comie1
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Hey lads.

Heard you were going to add the Mirage back to Blue side in limited numbers. Can I put my opinion forward on why I think this is a wee bit of a bad idea?
Obviously if you disagree I wont be offended lol

As it stands we are just about holding our own and it's not a matter of what jets you have to fight against. It's simply a matter of numbers.
At the moment the Red's are fighting 10:1 and that's the hardest part TBH. It's not unusual for us to be taking off while our SAM are firing off from the Q. I'm not complaining I mean those 20 x F18 year old girls want blood and that's fine
When your awacs has been shot down, they're circling like eagles and they have GCI (GO Blue Team!) it kinda makes the situation stale and puts people off joining RED.
Which is the norm in DCS multiplayer and why I fly RED, I like the challenge. So cool...

But...
If these guys want to fly Mirages then why not fly Red???
If you can answer me that, then hopefully I'll get it..

In my experience there are never more than 4xMirages flying at one time, if Blue gets them these guys will just join Blue and leave Red even more vulnerable. Add to that there is very seldom GCI on Red so the F5's will become useless Friendly Fire Machines lol

You guys on Blue have:
Carriers
2 x awacs
The numbers
GCI more often than Red

why make it harder for Red?
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Old 06-23-2018, 03:38 PM   #1952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comie1 View Post
Hey lads.

Heard you were going to add the Mirage back to Blue side in limited numbers. Can I put my opinion forward on why I think this is a wee bit of a bad idea?
Obviously if you disagree I wont be offended lol

As it stands we are just about holding our own and it's not a matter of what jets you have to fight against. It's simply a matter of numbers.
At the moment the Red's are fighting 10:1 and that's the hardest part TBH. It's not unusual for us to be taking off while our SAM are firing off from the Q. I'm not complaining I mean those 20 x F18 year old girls want blood and that's fine
When your awacs has been shot down, they're circling like eagles and they have GCI (GO Blue Team!) it kinda makes the situation stale and puts people off joining RED.
Which is the norm in DCS multiplayer and why I fly RED, I like the challenge. So cool...

But...
If these guys want to fly Mirages then why not fly Red???
If you can answer me that, then hopefully I'll get it..

In my experience there are never more than 4xMirages flying at one time, if Blue gets them these guys will just join Blue and leave Red even more vulnerable. Add to that there is very seldom GCI on Red so the F5's will become useless Friendly Fire Machines lol

You guys on Blue have:
Carriers
2 x awacs
The numbers
GCI more often than Red

why make it harder for Red?
A reason to fly mirage at blue is combined AG and AA. AG with mirage on red is boring, whereas blue mirages also must deal with f5 coming from Khasab. Red is outnumbered because of f18s and that doesnt really count as the f18 can be fought very well until it gets a proper radar stabilization and TWS mode...
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Old 06-23-2018, 03:39 PM   #1953
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I have to say I agree with comie1 about keeping the Mirage 2000C on Red. Right now the current setup makes the RWR really useful, props up numbers on REDFOR, and makes VID in all the non-radar/non-IFF aircraft actually doable.

If pilots absolutely have to fly blue they have a multitude of good platforms to choose from.
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Old 06-23-2018, 04:05 PM   #1954
comie1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badlego View Post
A reason to fly mirage at blue is combined AG and AA. AG with mirage on red is boring, whereas blue mirages also must deal with f5 coming from Khasab. Red is outnumbered because of f18s and that doesnt really count as the f18 can be fought very well until it gets a proper radar stabilization and TWS mode...

Why is it boring? Are the 18’s and 15’s too small a challenge? Is it not boring joining 25 blue looking for 2 red?
If it is boring that’s a mission design issue and should be addressed differently from mixing the MC2 IMO.
It will be a lot more boring when the F5’s leave cause they can’t tell friend from foe.
Also love the F18 “one day we will be great chat” haha it’s a beast already! Just use it right
First it was wait till we get IFF
Now I hear wait till we get datalink and full radar lol
The F18 doesn’t count is a terrible argument man. It carries 6 aim 9’s aim 7s, has radar and flys like Jesus on crack! So what does count? An F5 with 2 aim 9’s and a shitty wee radar?

Last edited by comie1; 06-23-2018 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 06-23-2018, 04:27 PM   #1955
Badlego
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comie1 View Post
Why is it boring? Are the 18’s and 15’s too small a challenge? Is it not boring joining 25 blue looking for 2 red?
If it is boring that’s a mission design issue and should be addressed differently from mixing the MC2 IMO.
It will be a lot more boring when the F5’s leave cause they can’t tell friend from foe.
Also love the F18 “one day we will be great chat” haha it’s a beast already! Just use it right
First it was wait till we get IFF
Now I hear wait till we get datalink and full radar lol
The F18 doesn’t count is a terrible argument man. It carries 6 aim 9’s aim 7s, has radar and flys like Jesus on crack! So what does count? An F5 with 2 aim 9’s and a shitty wee radar?
your right, its a mission design thing. the red objectives are too far away from the battlezone which is around khasab AB. so its just flying dropping bombs and returning. additionally the red tankers are too far away...on blue mirages could do AG, AA and Air refueling in one flight. thats why i want to see the mirage back on blue, or give red the same Environment.
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Old 06-23-2018, 06:39 PM   #1956
[Maverick]
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Its not about making it harder for the Red side, we added the Mirage to Blue primarily for the A2G role, that is why there is only 4 of them.
We had several requests from Mirage drivers to have France added and I don't see a problem with it.


The mission is not set up for be a 50 / 50 fair fight, no one has claimed that from our Squadron, so the mission should not be looked at like this.

You guys are doing a fantastic job, its not about you 'holding your own'. The mission is not finished development yet and there are lots of features still to be added on the Red side to improve the A2G side.

Red has...


1 X AWACS,
3x EWR Sites,
>>>>>> DATALINK! <<<<<<<<<, ,
A base 30nm away from the enemy coast line,
A base 30nm away from the enemy Ground Objective,



We are not going to start going down this road of Blue has this and Red has that.
We are not interested in chasing some perfectly balanced mission that will somehow please everyone. We are trying to make a semi realistic mission set that people will enjoy and I am sorry but France is part of the NATO coalition and so is the Mirage!

The current mission layout is playing out fantastically!

Yes Red are always outnumbered but they are still doing some heavy damage!

Yes it is going to make it more difficult for the F5 with its 'shitty radar' to IFF these Mirages... but that's not a good enough reason for us to remove the aircraft because one of your aircraft will have a harder time with IFF.

All the Blue aircraft have to deal with IFF from a German Mig29 on our side, now the Red will have to deal with having Mirage on both sides and the problems that will cause.


I'm also not going to start dumbing down the missions because Red has less people on comms.
The guys that fly on Red need to start stepping up and leading by example on the comm usage.
I KNOW most people on Red dont bother but that is NO excuse for you not to be on Comms.


Same with the GCI side, no one seems to want to step up and actually do GCI for Red. I did it for 6 hours for Blue the other night, not because I wanted to but because I want to encourage other people to do it!


Behaviour breeds behaviour, if you want people to start doing something, get out there and lead by example and start doing it yourself!


We got 104th_Presing set up with GCI as he has shown a keen interest in providing more regular services to the Red side, so we hope that will slowly start a trend of more people doing Red GCI.
But again... we are not going to start dumbing things down because the Red side traditionally won't work together.


Instead of doing this we need to find a way to encourage more Red guys to fly together.


The more people that use Comms the more people will start getting on board.


I hear your concerns though, they have not fallen on death ears, you just misunderstand my intentions. The intention is not to make it more difficult for the Red, while I can 100% understand why it does make it harder for the F-5.
The intention was to increase the NATO asset inter-operability with the M2Ks A2G capability.



We'll re-evaluate the Mirage in a few days and see how its playing out, its not off the cards that it would be removed from Blue, but at the moment there are is no one on the Blue Mirage and 3 people in Red ones so ... I don't think its having the negative effect you are worried about.




What we'll probably end up doing if it becomes to much of a mess is removing the M2000 from Blue until we get the Mirage skins for all coalitions. That way the Egyptian Mirages can actually be a Desert skin to help with IFF.




Fairness and balance are no longer concerns in the 104th server... however with that said we still want to provide a platform for people to enjoy so hang in there for a day or two... let's see how this plays out then we'll make a call on it.


Keep up the great work F-5s, you guys are doing better than 'holding your own!'






edit:


I will make time this week to look at LotATC. Hopefully this can bring more GCIs to the server!
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Last edited by [Maverick]; 06-23-2018 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 06-23-2018, 07:59 PM   #1957
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Mav thanks for the response.

I'd never ask for it to be "fair" that's too easy

To quote you:
"The current mission layout is playing out fantastically!"

I just worry when I saw a change that could impact this.

But like I said I'm not offended in the slightest and respect the 104th's decision.
All I'm saying is watch out Baguettes cause if you're not on coms I'm firing! Pew Pew
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Old 06-23-2018, 10:14 PM   #1958
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Haven;t played yet on the 104th PG mission. Guess it is time to try it out
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