Stick Input

I am being nostalgic with how the aircraft used to behave on air in older versions.

However I get to accept some of the newest progress over the FM, but I am struggling to accept the stick input required to move the aircraft around in particular the roll axis.

Back in the days when most of the module users were complaining about the slow roll rate of the AC, you came and respond by some adjustments.

New roll rate may be accepted but the stick input required is so small that of an inch..

From the start of the action the aircraft instantly responds (rapid) with a immediate halt when the movement of the stick stops, however careful and smooth one can be the action is so drastic and leads to over-reactions.

I am not claiming to know better nor having experience over those stuff, but understanding some basic physics and what is or not, one would expect a dead-zone on the input the pilot, has on the movement of the axis over the stick translated, in a small (but very important for efficient reaction and control) delay on the respond of the aileron. Much like the yaw and pitch inertia is active and noticeable in the current FM so much it should be in the roll axis.

Please (devs) elaborate on this, since there is no other way to go around this, nor deadzones or curve settings are really helpful because it is related with the in cockpit stick movement..

BadHabit, I forwarded your question and received information that explains this briefly. As you are possibly aware, an average joystick has movement of 4-6 cm measured in the middle of the hand grip. Aircraft stick has 10-15-22 cm movements (front, side, back). This means that for 1 cm side joystick movement you have simulated 1/4 - 1/6 of aircraft stick movement, which is 3.7-2.5 cm.

And this is the source of your (and our) problem, as there is less precision with such a limited movement with the joystick. To move aircraft stick for 1 cm, you need to move your joystick for 2.6-4.0 mm.

The other aspect is that aircraft has a max roll rate of ~420 deg/sec (IIRC). DCS MiG-21bis has to cope with the above limitations but maintain realistic levels of roll rate. And those are a bit opposing goals.

Thanks for the reply.

I understand the shortcomings but i believe the solution lays with the F-5E from belsimtek.

They added a saturation on the roll axis that the virtual pilot can overcome with a button press and halt the saturation. Giving both the precision he needs and extreme roll rate, without the need to have the real stick travel.

Innovations like this I believe should be shared among Dev teams around.

BadHabit, that's not artificial saturation on the Tiger. The limiter button actually there to simulate a feature the real F-5E-3 has - a heavy spring that works as a roll limiter and needs heavy input to overcome.

The MiG-21 doesn't have that assist, so we need to make do. If it's making flying imprecise or uncomfortable, give the curves a go and see if they help! Physical stick precision also plays a part here, my flying improved tenfold since I got a T16000M because it detects the smallest of movements, making temperamental or sensitive aircraft like the Fishbed and Tiger a joy to fly.

Another way to overcome this, is getting a joystick with an extension tube. They are probably only available for more expensive sticks (Warthog), but it does make a ton of difference to have one.

Thing is, that the problem is with the very small movement the in game, in cockpit stick needs to roll the plane. I have no problem with my stick or with any other plane using it from Il2 to Bms and in every fixed wing in dcs.

As Hiromachi explained above it is something they had to compromise with.

I need to point out that I am not really having any problem of flying the plane in combat or doing my missions.

But flying the airplane, cruising around without the stabilization mode on, is the most irritating thing to do in this sim.

I don't know how other dev teams have come over this obstacle and I don't like pointing out other teams all over again. I hope you have a solution any time soon on this.

One more thing I wanted to state. As of this situation, I personally use stabilization mode a lot for flying, and sometime for fighting. I read somewhere that real pilots using this mode were disabling the Autopilot Pitch Channel power switch? so the could have a more responsive pitch control. Using this switch tho has no effect in the sim. :music_whistling:

Maybe I'm being naive here, but can't this be solved by just setting some custom curves on your axis?

Thing is, that the problem is with the very small movement the in game, in cockpit stick needs to roll the plane.

Ah, this is a little lost in a simulator but it's not the developer's fault. One thing I've noticed from Russian aircraft in real life, from sitting in the cockpit or poking around the full-scale simulator, is how extremely heavy the controls are. There is no way a person can accidentally add some stick input without noticing because that thing loves being in the centre and it will not budge unless you put a lot of force there.

My curves are already at 30 with 5 deadzone and 95 saturation

Maybe I'm being naive here, but can't this be solved by just setting some custom curves on your axis?

Sent from my iQE100 while I was inverted

Is this also relevant to the plane bobbing up and down constantly?

I was looking for a solution to this, i would love to fly the Mig-21, but now its almost impossible for me because it is so nervous.

I cannot keep the plane steady, its kind of nerve wrecking.

Your stick has a big impact on the plane behavior, and this is not isolated to Mig21, Spitfire and Gazelle also have some extreme sensibility to certain axis, which disappear with sticks closer to the real thing, due to extension.

I recently changed to an extended T50, and you don't feel anything too sensible in the 21 with it.

95 saturation is not much. Try 80 or 70 even. And the Y saturation has to be set, not the X.

I was using extreme saturation levels with my X55 for the spitfire, for example.

I would recommend simply reducing the joystick's sensitivity for the stabilators. It's better to gently nudge the aircraft up and down for the first chunk of joystick travel, but leave enough room in the curve to pull up quickly.

Just keep in mind that excessive wobbling will really bleed off speed over time.

I am using Warthog with the recommended curves (around 20) and have no problems in keeping the plane steady, even fly hands of if properly trimmed.

Is this also relevant to the plane bobbing up and down constantly?

I was looking for a solution to this, i would love to fly the Mig-21, but now its almost impossible for me because it is so nervous.

I cannot keep the plane steady, its kind of nerve wrecking.

I have the same thing. The aircraft wobble a lot in the vertical and has an insane turn ratio on the horizontal. But the main problem is the vertical axis wobbling. At low speeds its super hard to keep it steady!

My curves are already at 30 with 5 deadzone and 95 saturation

 

Sent from my iQE100 while I was inverted

5 deadzone is too much

if you have to set it that high because of your joystick, it might be time to think about replacing it

if you don't, deadzone won't help you because it induces a lot of over reaction