Business model behind this project?

Of course the P51, and FW190 counts. Most people here don't already own the P51.

 

The list below shows what people will receive for the hundred dollar investment, it also shows what the free demo does not provide.

 

P51

 

FW190

 

Early access to the sims closed beta.

 

A hard copy of the games's air combat strategy, and tactics manual

 

A spiral-bound copies of complete aircraft manuals.

 

Plus the satisfaction of helping the developer hire more personal to create a decent product sooner with better possiblilities of creating further content/features/theaters later.

 

Personally, I'm not too concerned with the details, from experience I know that the years of entertainment value will far surpass any level I payed for that software, so I'll pledge as much as I can afford to pledge.

 

For the couple hundred dollars I invested in the origianl Il-2 there was ten years of highly entertaining combat flight simming.

I'll soon recoup far more than my investment in COD, especially with the free TF patches.

I'm sure my BOS and DCSWW2 investment will also be miniscule in comparison to the entertainment hours.

 

The cost of Combat flight sim software is quite frankly a joke compared to what it costs to create them, and the computer costs required to run them well.

I think most people here already have the Pony. Many also won't be waiting for this game to be released to enjoy the Dora, if DCS releases it before. I know I won't. To me this twodon't really count. This are DCS planes anyway, not RRG.

The rest of the stuf is just bs anyway. Except for the demo access I don't care about anything in that package.

All i care about is game content. Not posters, tshirts and that kind of crap.

I got the $112 pledge only to help them. Not because it's worth it.

But after Luthier's post yesterday, it looks like they don't even want to help themselves, and come asking us for help.

First, you need to have the shelf full before you can afford to give away free shit.

It's pretty clear to me they won't have nothing to sell at release, after ayear of work. All they'll have is a forum full of free shit army bugging them.

The decision to give away, for free, all three planes they'll make is retarded and will get push them under.

I hope they change their mind if not I may change mine.

I think most people here already have the Pony. Many also won't be waiting for this game to be released to enjoy the Dora, if DCS releases it before. I know I won't. To me this twodon't really count. This are DCS planes anyway, not RRG.

 

The rest of the stuf is just bs anyway. Except for the demo access I don't care about anything in that package.

All i care about is game content. Not posters, tshirts and that kind of crap.

 

I got the $112 pledge only to help them. Not because it's worth it.

 

But after Luthier's post yesterday, it looks like they don't even want to help themselves, and come asking us for help.

 

First, you need to have the shelf full before you can afford to give away free shit.

It's pretty clear to me they won't have nothing to sell at release, after ayear of work. All they'll have is a forum full of free shit army bugging them.

 

The decision to give away, for free, all three planes they'll make is retarded and will get push them under.

 

I hope they change their mind if not I may change mine.

So your assuming the developer isn't smart enough to figure out they won't be able to feed their families with free stuff. .

I also fail to see what is giving 3 of the DCS Mustang level aircraft away getting them? One is more than enough to get people into the sim. IMHO it should be the Thunderbolt, as the Spit and 109 are more popular and more people will be inclined to pay for them.

If it was like, P-47 free, 20 dollars for Spit, and 30 for spit and 109, I bet we would have bigger chances to get to the first stretch goal.

Hell, ED is only giving the Su-25T which is not DCS level, and I feel that is just right.

 

But I do not feel bad for pledging 40 bucks, as I am sure I will be having lots of fun with those birds.

+1

im of the same opinion.while personally i dont mind to have pledged 215$, without getting anything in comparison to a non pledger(i already own the P51 and will be a first minute owner of the Dora), as i just want to see this project to succeed, i think many others think different, and really want some reward, which actually makes a difference to not pledging(manuals aside).

it probably also keeps people away of pledging a bit more...

anyway, the only real advantage i see with this approach is, that they really attract people who now fly other sims, or will fly other games in the near future, to have a look at it once its out.while one free plane would probably be enough for people to try it, i think many more people really will stick to the sim if they get 3planes for free.so to speak a whole sim and not only a demo trial...

So.. Have they clearly stated "WWII Europe module will be free"? If not then I think people are mistaken. The 3 planes will be free with the module, just like all the ground units were free with Combined Arms. Unless I'm mistaken, you will still have to pay for the module, the planes technically won't be free...

Regardless, I pledged my $40. Had no previous intention of owning the Dora. That'll be nice to have. I own the Mustang so I plan on (if possible) gifting my "extra" plane.

The module will be F2P with the Spit, 109 and P47. Luthier has confirmed ED have provided the funding for that.

Luthier has confirmed ED have provided the funding for that.

Can you provide a quote for this part?

Yup, I thought they would go the route of a free Trainer aircraft, and the other planes would be paid...

Yes something like that. A T6/Harvard would be nice (as CloD did the Moth). The problem is that a trainer "has no place" in the real Normandy map.

So - as a proposal - why not have a C-47 (DC-3) as a free plane for everyone... A C-47 would for sure make sense in the Normandy setting - probably one of the most used aircraft the first day at least ;) And those poor sods that where piloting them sure have not gotten the credit they deserve for taking a plane like that over enemy territory! There sure could be some interesting paratrooper drop missions - but the urge to pay up for something with guns would be strong :)

Or thinking of it - how about going all in and add a Waco CG-4? Very simple cockpit and no systems to think of modelling. You could then have a mission to land in field X near Carentan etc... The urge to pay up for a P-51 would be even stronger - and it would really be an interesting addition (but just fun a time or two probably ;))

But back to the C-47... It would also make the MP mode from the "Warbirds" franchise possible - which I actually thought was a lot of fun (even though not that "realistic"). When all the AAA etc around an base has been destroyed a message appears for all friendly pilots that "The air defences at base X are now down - get paratroopers there in X minutes to capture the base for your side". Sure nothing for the hardcore guys, but we are talking about attracting new pilots now... It also promotes team play and adds a "dynamic" purpose for all types of aircraft. Get the A-26:s to take out the AAA, and escort the C-47:s dropping the paratroopers to capture the base.

Another thing about the C-47 is that a DC-3 could sell as a DCS plane in DCS World? When trying to get the FSX "civilian" guys over I think that the DC-3 can have some attraction?

But then we naturally need the Ju-52 too :)

I also still find this confusing, and i can see no sense in anybody making the initial game for free with 3 free high fidelity new aircraft (p47, spitfire and 109) and a full new map that will be the main game environment for the 1e year or more.

if that is indeed correct, it really undermines the whole pledge project itself, because even if you dont give any money to support it now you will still get the game for free and have the same product everybody else now pays 40$ + for. compared to the smaller number of people that still would give money anyway to support them, giving the majority of people an incentive NOT to support the pledge is a bad idea imho.

a much better model would be:

- provide "dcs-ww2 world" for free with one less important (or dated) aircraft, like a tigermoth, stork, or even a training aircraft: that way prospective customers can download the game world and get a taste of what it offers. it is what DCS does right now with the su-25, and it is a good model.

giving away 3 high fidelity brand new aircraft that takes them 1 yr to create is madness. by all means use it as THE main incentive for the "pledge drive" we have now and offer all 3 aircraft to people who pledge 40$ or more, but offering those aircraft for free later on game release in 2014 to people who dont pledge right now is a disincentive to support this project (and i am one of its biggest supporters, having been with the il2 series since its first beta demo they released 10 yrs ago)

for ex, i bought the p51 tonight from DCS so i can start getting used to the DCS prop plane flightmodels and controls (because there was no ww2 scenario or other ww2 aircraft i hadnt purchased it before), so there will be cross pollination between the DCS and RRG-ww2 project to provide new customers, which is good for both companies.

now that i think of it, the initial il2 free demo 10 yrs ago had several free planes in it (p39, 109 and something else ?), but iirc it only had one small demo map (but did include a multiplayer server even), and once you bought the game on release there were 7 or 8 more flyable aircraft that came with it and a bunch of new maps etc. maybe luthier is trying to emulate that, but i fear he has overdone it this time with the freebies and doing so will undermine the pledges we need NOW and it would remove their financial income they can obtain from sales in september 2014.

luthier, please wakeup to this !!!

So.. Have they clearly stated "WWII Europe module will be free"? If not then I think people are mistaken. The 3 planes will be free with the module, just like all the ground units were free with Combined Arms. Unless I'm mistaken, you will still have to pay for the module, the planes technically won't be free...

 

Regardless, I pledged my $40. Had no previous intention of owning the Dora. That'll be nice to have. I own the Mustang so I plan on (if possible) gifting my "extra" plane.

Per their kickstarter page "The last major release in the DCS line, DCS World, is distributed via a free-to-play model. The core game is available free of charge."

It is too late for Luthier to change his mind on the 'free-to-play' aspects. Kickstarter doesn't allow rewards to be revised once backers have started pledging...

he could change his mind about giving away the 3 fighters free to no backers at release.

Good call, and I would love him to do that.That then makes the $40 pledge super attractive to the doubters.

I also still find this confusing, and i can see no sense in anybody making the initial game for free with 3 free high fidelity new aircraft (p47, spitfire and 109) and a full new map that will be the main game environment for the 1e year or more.

 

if that is indeed correct, it really undermines the whole pledge project itself, because even if you dont give any money to support it now you will still get the game for free and have the same product everybody else now pays 40$ + for. compared to the smaller number of people that still would give money anyway to support them, giving the majority of people an incentive NOT to support the pledge is a bad idea imho.

 

a much better model would be:

- provide "dcs-ww2 world" for free with one less important (or dated) aircraft, like a tigermoth, stork, or even a training aircraft: that way prospective customers can download the game world and get a taste of what it offers. it is what DCS does right now with the su-25, and it is a good model.

 

giving away 3 high fidelity brand new aircraft that takes them 1 yr to create is madness. by all means use it as THE main incentive for the "pledge drive" we have now and offer all 3 aircraft to people who pledge 40$ or more, but offering those aircraft for free later on game release in 2014 to people who dont pledge right now is a disincentive to support this project (and i am one of its biggest supporters, having been with the il2 series since its first beta demo they released 10 yrs ago)

 

for ex, i bought the p51 tonight from DCS so i can start getting used to the DCS prop plane flightmodels and controls (because there was no ww2 scenario or other ww2 aircraft i hadnt purchased it before), so there will be cross pollination between the DCS and RRG-ww2 project to provide new customers, which is good for both companies.

 

now that i think of it, the initial il2 free demo 10 yrs ago had several free planes in it (p39, 109 and something else ?), but iirc it only had one small demo map (but did include a multiplayer server even), and once you bought the game on release there were 7 or 8 more flyable aircraft that came with it and a bunch of new maps etc. maybe luthier is trying to emulate that, but i fear he has overdone it this time with the freebies and doing so will undermine the pledges we need NOW and it would remove their financial income they can obtain from sales in september 2014.

 

luthier, please wakeup to this !!!

Exactly. He torpedoed his own project.

The rewards are fine as they stand, but he could change his mind about giving away the 3 fighters free to no backers at release.

At minimum, he'd have to give them to anyone who'd backed at all - even the $1 backers. I can't see it happening anyway - it would look like indecision, which could hurt the project.

the way the kickstarter is so badly worded in a few places, luthier can easily "clarify" that the free game on release in september 2014 means:

1) "for free" you get the new dcs-ww2 world, and the su-25 (so you get a plane to fly around in, and can explore the new world and shoot up a few AI things and ground targets). alternatively they can create another non-combat ww2 plane to give away with it, but that is more work (= less time and money to work on improving multiplayer etc)

2) the 40$ + pledger's for the current kickstarter get the first 3 new planes for free on game release (spitfire, p47, and the me109). that would be THE big incentive to support the kickstarter now !!

and i seriously hope that that is indeed what luthier meant in his kickstarter, giving the whole game away for free and undermining the incentive for people to contribute now is madness imho (and i really want this project to succeed)

by current indications we'll be lucky if the pledge reaches the 100.000 goal, and any dreams of 300.000+ seem very far fetched. that makes it even more important that the game release in september 2014 actually makes money, rather then be forced to gie it away for free and have no other revenue while they work on more new planes and maps for the next 12 months.

the way the kickstarter is so badly worded in a few places, luthier can easily "clarify" that the free game on release in september 2014 means:

1) "for free" you get the new dcs-ww2 world, and the su-25 (so you get a plane to fly around in, and can explore the new world and shoot up a few AI things and ground targets). alternatively they can create another non-combat ww2 plane to give away with it, but that is more work (= less time and money to work on improving multiplayer etc)

2) the 40$ + pledger's for the current kickstarter get the first 3 new planes for free on game release (spitfire, p47, and the me109). that would be THE big incentive to support the kickstarter now !!

He has already clarified this:

Evening everyone!

 

 

 

FREE for everyone:

P-47

Spitfire

Bf.109K

 

Paid on release

P-51 (from DCS World)

FW-190D (from DCS World)

 

If you back at a $20 level, you can pick a P-51 or FW-190D.

 

If you back at a $40 level, you will have both.

 

If you already own a DCS World P-51 and/or FW-190, then obviously no one wants you to have to pay for anything twice.

 

If we reach stretch goals, then the story changes.

 

Free aircraft list will most likely not change.

 

Backing at $20 still gets you one of the larger variety of paid aircraft.

 

$40 or above still gets you ALL of the initial flyables.

 

None of the aircraft released in future updates are covered by any of this.

Well, it would be a really bad PR if they change it now.

Why can't you people just be happy that they're willing to give three combat planes for free?

Besides, there will be plenty of planes for people to buy later, gotta draw the crowd in somehow.

People always get hung up on the map location... but lets think, by the time we see Normandy, that probably means that at the very least Nevada will be out... can you fly your trainer there ok? :) (at least if the cross compatibility is maintained like discussed)

 

Bottomline I thnk Luthier is being too generous, 1 plane to non-backers would be more than generous enough. Those 3 planes, if done to the P-51D level need to bring him in some money, not be free... I'd take a transport or something like you suggested as well...

I fully agree - even one of the free fighters feels too generous. Like many here I already own the DCS P-51 so the pledge of $40 gives me the D9. Really not that attractive - more like a 1-1 transaction as I guess the D9 will be $39 or so... But like many others I really want DCS WWII so that sweetens the deal.

By changing the "Game+Map+ 3 fighters" module to cost $30 (cheap by the way for 3 planes) it sure would draw more people into this!

I fully agree - even one of the free fighters feels too generous. Like many here I already own the DCS P-51 so the pledge of $40 gives me the D9. Really not that attractive - more like a 1-1 transaction as I guess the D9 will be $39 or so... But like many others I really want DCS WWII so that sweetens the deal. !

even worse, since after your 40 pledge RRG wont be giving you the fw190 before release of their completed game (sept 2014), and the 190 is likely to be released long before then already. so it is a disincentive for people to give money to DCS in the meantime (and if you want your free fw190 you'd have to wait longer to start using it)

.

It looks like the pledges are starting to stall. It's very discouraging since there is no real incentive to contribute except to "be part of the project".

If the game was not available for free to Johnny-come-lately next fall, I bet they would have hit $100K by now!

Take note guys, the reason Free-to-Play worked for ED and RoF is because they started making money off their planes for a couple of years *BEFORE* giving it away.

Yep, not much in today. Not good.

I agree with Sith and all the above re the apparently bizarre business decisions. However I don't see how you can move he goalposts now without appearing dishonest. Other than having a warm fuzzy feeling about helping the genre I just don't see the incentive to contribute. Apparently other F2P projects have had a hard time on Kickstarter.

This campaign seems to have been rushed out.