DCS and Pimax

Interested to hear your thoughts!

Could take a while as the availability is noted on their website to the end of September.

Meanwhile I´m pretty sick of testing, doubting and fiddling with Pimax. I´ll keep it for experimenting, but reserved an Index and will get one as soon as available.

 

After three years of VR, I really appreciate the large FOV before regular HMDs, but am also very interested in 120Hz/ 144hz mode. Let´s see how this goes ... ;-)

I don't see how are you going to run DCS at 144 fps.

Doesn´t make much sense to me to talk on on this, unless it´s released for testing and fiddling.

But me too have doubts ... lol

"-2.32 is accurate with render target setting 1.0 and 1.25 in Pitool. To meet the exact aspect ration with a higher render target 1.5, 1.75 or 2.0, there would be need a 3rd or maybe 4th position after the comma."

 

 

I had trouble reproducing this "-2.32" setting at Pitool 1.0 etc. -- SteamVR's scale just wouldn't get exactly to the 2560 scale, always a little off. I tried to to calibrate the value to dial-in but to no avail. It was always a little off and would stop scaling completely after 3-4 precision digit.

Hi Volk50,

sorry for late reply. I´m using the latest available Pitool Version. Had a look into some files, to see what may affect the discrepancy with your setting, but not sure, what´s the cause.

Is there set in the same file "steamVR.use.native.FOV" set to "1"?

The -2.32 value did affect first the horizontal resolution until reached 2560, when reducing the value. Then it switches to the vertical resolution until 1440, when further reducing the value.

A more precise value with 3 digit after comma should affect, when you´re at 1.5 scale or above in Pitool. Up to 1.25 the coefficient of the render resolution remains 1.7777777 , at 1.5 in Pitool it changed to different values after the 3 digit like 1.7746456 and there was a difference in the Render Resolution of 4 pixel in heights in SteamVR.

If you find some time, try to change the -2.32 in very small steps and check, how it affects the render resolution in SteamVR to get closer and finally match the native aspect ratio.

With the new update (yes I know the VR improvement didn’t make it in), I’m running mostly 35-40 on the ground and mostly holding 45 in the air.

Everything set to High, trees full, visibility to Ultra. 1.0 PD and no MSAA.

Not a single jitter or stutter, but I’ve never had those.

Excited for the VR update to drop, might be able to add some PD then and still hold 45.

All of this is based on MP servers like Blue Flag and DDCS.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm curious which Pitool version and gfx card drivers everyone is usuing. I ask after spending several hours on Discord with a buddy who has the 8K, loves it, says it's looks better than his O+ and is smooth as silk. Hearing him talk about it made me get the 5K+. As we were going through his settings I realized he didn't have the FFR option under Smart Smoothing. He in fact is using the older .109 Pitools whereas I'm using the current .132. Seeing this I asked what nvidia driver he has and it was 425.31 whereas I'm using the current 430.86.

My biggest frustration with the unit has been getting Pitools to see the unit and connect it though it's never been disconnected and then having the lighthouses track being only three feet away with a clear view. I would have to reboot, fire up Pitools and wait like 5 minutes for it to connect, then wait as much as 7 minutes for the lighthouses to track, if both did at all.

After I rolled back to .109 and 425.31, the unit connected almost instantly and the lighthouses likewise. Almost as smooth as a Rift. Those two simple changes kept me from stomping the thing.

It's also much sharper now in the Pitools loading screen with the planets but I still can't eliminate the judder. He said he is running SteamVR at 100% and Pitools at 1.0 and that he' has his PD in DCS as high as 1.8 with no issues. He did however have issues when he got the new pitool. Specifically judder. But with the .109, it's smooth and clearer than an O+. His current rig is an i7 8700K at stock 3.6. I can't remember the boost clock but I think it's 4.5 or 4.7. He's running an RTX2080Ti from PNY at stock 1650Mghz with 64GB memory and an M.2 drive. I on the other hand am running an i9 9900K @ 5.0Ghz on all cores with highest temp at 74c, Asus RoG Strix RTX2080Ti @ 2000Mghz with highest temp at 67c, 64GB memory and an M.2 and can't get it smooth regardless of SteamVR custom resolution under the video tab setting or pitool setting below 1.

Is it possible I have a bad cable lol. This is ridiculous.

There have been incidences of bad cables causing problems on the Pimax forums.

I'm running with the specs in my sig and the frame rate in the Pimax 5kXR is comparable to my Rift CV1 with PiTool 132 and Nvidia 430.86, but with the settings reduced slightly in DCS and using Voight's Steam settings above and the PiTool render quality at 1.75.

I have played around in the past with the steam settings at 100% and PiTool at 1, but it wasn't quite as smooth, but was quite a bit sharper.

I love my Pimax headset, but the software side of it really is pretty poor.

I've noticed that like my CV1, image quality in the Pimax 5K+ is greatly dependent on the PD in DCS. I haven't tried cranking up the render in Pitools while lowering the SteamVR resolution to 30. Will try it tonight. The only reason it's not on eBay is I think there's a good chance it will get better with future Pitools updates. However I still think I've got a bad cable and will try to get another new one.

Ran into another weird occurrence with the Pimax today. After trying different settings I decided to switch back to the CV1 and fly a while online. I turned off Pitools and fired up Oculus Tray Tool, then loaded DCS to adjust the settings. Before getting into DCS Oculus home was stuttering. That rarely happens if ever anymore and come to find out it was the older Nvidia driver I had loaded up for the Pimax yesterday. Switched it back to the current one and all was well. After a couple hours flying I decided to see if the Pimax would work with the new driver and Pitools .109. The first thing I noticed was the headset was on and projecting the Pitools home screen... but Pitools was not running. So I fired up Pitools and it wouldn't connect, but the headset was on. Then as I watched my gfx card temps where running at 71c with nothing but windows running. I then unplugged it and the temps immediately dropped to 39C. When I went back to look at the temp logs, it was obvious the Pimax was on when the Oculus was on and it was causing the temp spikes. WTF lol. I guess you can't have them both plugged in at the same time regardless of whether or not Pitools or Oculus home are running.

Yeah, you're not supposed to have both headsets plugged in at the same time, that was one of the first things I picked up when reading through the Pimax forums as it can cause issues for either headset. Quite often you can find that the PiTools installation will bugger up the Oculus app, and I rarely have mine running any more as the Rift is on my other older gaming computer now.

The headset is also always on unless you turn it off with the actual power button on the headset. I never turn mine on unless I want to use it, and for reference, you do not need PiTools started at all unless you're launching a game from it, or need to tweak settings.

Hi Volk50,

 

sorry for late reply. I´m using the latest available Pitool Version. Had a look into some files, to see what may affect the discrepancy with your setting, but not sure, what´s the cause.

 

Is there set in the same file "steamVR.use.native.FOV" set to "1"?

 

The -2.32 value did affect first the horizontal resolution until reached 2560, when reducing the value. Then it switches to the vertical resolution until 1440, when further reducing the value.

 

A more precise value with 3 digit after comma should affect, when you´re at 1.5 scale or above in Pitool. Up to 1.25 the coefficient of the render resolution remains 1.7777777 , at 1.5 in Pitool it changed to different values after the 3 digit like 1.7746456 and there was a difference in the Render Resolution of 4 pixel in heights in SteamVR.

 

If you find some time, try to change the -2.32 in very small steps and check, how it affects the render resolution in SteamVR to get closer and finally match the native aspect ratio.

You are right -- "steamVR.use.native.FOV" was set to '0'. after setting it to '1' I was able to get 2560x1400 in SteamVR slider.

This slider increment stays true until PiTool render target value of 1.3 (target set via profile.json file, not PiTool UI) with "fov_outer_adjust_degree" = -2.32.

I tried playing around to get similar at render target 2.0 but couldn't get it to dial-in quite right. If someone figures this out -- please share :) it makes so much sense not to waste pixel render in the pipeline that it's surprising this isn't out-of-the-box algorithm in PiTools.

Can someone explain to me what the effect of these modification are? I understand that, in theory, you wouldn't want unnecessary re-scaling going on in the render pipeline, but I haven't seen anyone describe the outcome.

Are people getting better frame-rates after making these changes? Better clarity at the same FPS?

Thanks to anyone who can clarify this for me.

After messing with different pitool versions, I don't think the render slider works in Pitools. At least not in versions prior to 132. I slid it all the way to 2.0 and it didn't make any changes that I could tell either for FPS or clarity. I noticed that SteamVR says it fixes your resolution based on the power of your graphics card. It sets mine at 60% which puts it at 29**x2*** something. Moving the render slider in Pitools doesn't do a thing. If you check the set custom res box in the SteamVR settings/video tab, then you can scale the res up and down and that works. The smart smoothing and FFR seem to work as well as the other sliders though. So I'm basically left with the SteamVR resolution setting and PD in DCS to try and get a good balance of clarity and FPS. If you go too low on either the image is crap.

As Highway stated I realized I don't have to use Pitools at all as long as it's installed. In fact, with a couple Pitools versions it would work upon booting up the computer but disconnect as soon as I started Pitools never to turn on again until reboot lol. I wonder if those who've recently received the XR's are having the same issues.

You are right -- "steamVR.use.native.FOV" was set to '0'. after setting it to '1' I was able to get 2560x1400 in SteamVR slider.

 

This slider increment stays true until PiTool render target value of 1.3 (target set via profile.json file, not PiTool UI) with "fov_outer_adjust_degree" = -2.32.

 

I tried playing around to get similar at render target 2.0 but couldn't get it to dial-in quite right. If someone figures this out -- please share :) it makes so much sense not to waste pixel render in the pipeline that it's surprising this isn't out-of-the-box algorithm in PiTools.

That´s good to know, that the render target in Pitool could be adjusted in smaller steps via profile.json.

Glad to hear that it´s working now. I still think, that the value of -2.32 need to be more precised with more digits to exactly meet a multiple of the native resolution, when upscaling beyond *1.25 in Pitool.

To finally make the image round in DCS, I´ve adjusted the aspect ratio in the stereo.lua

( located in c:\EagleDynamics\DCS World\Config\MonitorSetup\ ..) as follows:

Left =

{

x = 0;

y = 0;

width = screen.width * 0.5;

height = screen.height;

viewDx = 0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = screen.aspect / 1.777777;

eye_shift = -0.032;

--tans of side angles

projection_bounds = {

left = 0.964925826,

right = 0.715263844,

top = 0.889498115,

bottom = 1.11092532,

}

},

Right =

{

x = screen.width * 0.5;

y = 0;

width = screen.width * 0.5;

height = screen.height;

viewDx = 0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = screen.aspect / 1.777777;

eye_shift = 0.032;

--tans of side angles

projection_bounds = {

left = 0.715263844,

right = 0.964925826,

top = 0.889498115,

bottom = 1.11092532,

Now, the aspect ratio of the images should be the same as the native display resolution or respectively a multiple of the native resolution through upscaling/supersampling through out the whole rendering pipeline: Pitool --> SteamVR (openVR ) --> DCS World.

In result the DCS cockpits look very right to me, neither compressed or streched in the slightest.

@Wicked

Jesus, check the override button in SteamVR ;)

BTW: I think the overall clarity could be improved a bit by setting the Brightness in Pitool to "high" ( default is normal ). This should increase the backgroundlighting of the LCDs. If too bright, could be then adjusted by Gamma settings in DCS, while keeping some more overall clarity.

That´s good to know, that the render target in Pitool could be adjusted in smaller steps via profile.json.

Glad to hear that it´s working now. I still think, that the value of -2.32 need to be more precised with more digits to exactly meet a multiple of the native resolution, when upscaling beyond *1.25 in Pitool.

 

To finally make the image round in DCS, I´ve adjusted the aspect ratio in the stereo.lua

( located in c:\EagleDynamics\DCS World\Config\MonitorSetup\ ..) as follows:

 

Left =

{

x = 0;

y = 0;

width = screen.width * 0.5;

height = screen.height;

viewDx = 0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = screen.aspect / 1.777777;

eye_shift = -0.032;

--tans of side angles

projection_bounds = {

left = 0.964925826,

right = 0.715263844,

top = 0.889498115,

bottom = 1.11092532,

}

},

Right =

{

x = screen.width * 0.5;

y = 0;

width = screen.width * 0.5;

height = screen.height;

viewDx = 0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = screen.aspect / 1.777777;

eye_shift = 0.032;

--tans of side angles

projection_bounds = {

left = 0.715263844,

right = 0.964925826,

top = 0.889498115,

bottom = 1.11092532,

 

 

Now, the aspect ratio of the images should be the same as the native display resolution or respectively a multiple of the native resolution through upscaling/supersampling through out the whole rendering pipeline: Pitool --> SteamVR (openVR ) --> DCS World.

 

In result the DCS cockpits look very right to me, neither compressed or streched in the slightest.

 

@Wicked

Jesus, check the override button in SteamVR ;)

 

BTW: I think the overall clarity could be improved a bit by setting the Brightness in Pitool to "high" ( default is normal ). This should increase the backgroundlighting of the LCDs. If too bright, could be then adjusted by Gamma settings in DCS, while keeping some more overall clarity.

Err, I have checked the override in SteamVR lol. By doing that, I get the impression that it ignores any changes made by the Pitools render slider. By unchecking that override I was trying to use Pitools to change the resolution size. Regardless I'm not arguing with anyhing you've said, I'm just playing catchup with all the different settings configurations that have already been tried. I just haven't gone back through them yet.

So, if I understand correctly, 2560x1400 is the native per eye resolution of the Pimax 5K+. Why then does SteamVR insist on setting it to a higher resolution? It always tries to set it to at least 2800x1920 or somewhere in the range. Why doesn't it pick the standard resolution and then let me adjust my in game PD? Granted that would be just like how the Rift works but it would sure as hell simplify things. One thing is for certain, Pitools smart smoothing sucks. After the last 2 weeks I've really come to appreciate ASW.

When SteamVR is not set to override in the video tab, it detects the CPU and GPU and sets with regard to your system specs automatically the ´appropiate´ render resolution.

Problem is, that it does not differentiate between "Fruit Ninja" and "DCS World".

When SteamVR is not set to override in the video tab, it detects the CPU and GPU and sets with regard to your system specs automatically the ´appropiate´ render resolution

Add on top of that, that if you have a smart auto clocking graphics card like my Gigabyte RTX 2080Ti AORUS Extreme, Steam only detects the idle speed of the GPU when making this decision and says, “Ha, your system sucks, I’m going to set the render target to 18%”

Clock wise, I think it is seeing the speed of my card. It sets the resolution higher than the actual native resolution of the Pimax which to me is a head scratcher... I've boxed it back up for now and returned to the CV1. August Aurelius makes a point I had already realized but chose to ignore. No hardware on the planet right now can push enough pixels to fill the higher res HMD's. As long as DCS is limited to 1 core processing it'll be a long time before it gets much better.

DCS World was released with native support for the Rift and in the last few days since the most recent update I've noticed dramatic improvement in image quality. I don't have to zoom to read gauges anymore, I can simply lean in. With my IPD of 58 and the need for readers to see clearly in the S, it looks like the CV1 is my world for now.

Add on top of that, that if you have a smart auto clocking graphics card like my Gigabyte RTX 2080Ti AORUS Extreme, Steam only detects the idle speed of the GPU when making this decision and says, “Ha, your system sucks, I’m going to set the render target to 18%”

Yeah, this automatic setting in SteamVR might work well for special VR games with usually low graphical fidelity, low textures, if there were textures at all and low geometrical details. But for DCS World it´s very much different. Actually the automatic setting thinks, that you got a super fast system with a 2080ti and increases the render target, therefore instead of lowering, what is needed to run DCS smoothly, it increases the render target resolution in SteamVR automatically.

@wicked

doesn´t matter, which HMD you use, none is really perfect and VR is mostly in developement in every aspect - most important is, that you are happy, with the experience.

@ -voight- agreed sir lol but I'm a sucker for new toys! I really should have held off on the Pimax but a good friend is having no issues with his 8K so I said to hell with it. There's so many subjective attributes to an HMD being the right one it really sucks not to be able to get a demonstration before buying. My expectations are probably ridiculous as well. I want to be wowed again like the first time I flew in the Rift but that's probably not going to happen until a true gen 2 comes out.

I've emailed Pimax support to see if they will sell me a new cable. It seems most people I talk to on different forums are not having the same issues I am. Specifically with the disconnects and lighthouses not tracking. I thought I had solved it but it's intermitten. We'll see.

So are we better off adjusting resolution in steam vr, or pd in dcs? I currently run a pd of 1.0 and 240% in stream vr. Performance is decent, 35-40 fps at Al Dafra. I7 7700, 1080ti, 32g. Also what's everyone using to track frame rates?

So are we better off adjusting resolution in steam vr, or pd in dcs? I currently run a pd of 1.0 and 240% in stream vr. Performance is decent, 35-40 fps at Al Dafra. I7 7700, 1080ti, 32g. Also what's everyone using to track frame rates?

I would run a balanced combination of DCS PD and Render Resolution.

I´m still thinking, that these are two separated processes and that DCS PD at 1.0 render a frame in 1080 x 1200 resolution, from which you could scale up.

The render target with Pitool/SteamVR only upsamples the prerenderd image of 1080 x 1200 ( PD 1.0 ).

In effect the higher render resolution via Pitool/SteamVR sharpens the edges and reduces shimmering, but it does not add more information or detail to the image as DCS PD could do.

DCS pixel density renders the original frame - the higher, the more detail and information is rendered, but on cost of performance.

My subjective impression is, to get most quality if render resolution target and DCS PD is well balanced.

The render target with Pitool/SteamVR only upsamples the prerenderd image of 1080 x 1200 ( PD 1.0 )..

I can't say for Pitool but in the case of SteamVR this is not true. SteamVR sets the resolution it requires to be rendered from the game. Essentially it tells the game engine that the display is a set resolution.

It is exactly the same as setting the PD in DCS. However SteamVR is calibrated in % of total pixels rendered. where as DCS PD is % of horizontal or Vertical resolution.

So if you had a display with a resolution of 1000x1000 and used steamvr at 200% you would in fact be asking the game to render a image of about 1420x1420. Where as in DCS a PD of 2 (200%) is asking the game to render a image of 2000x2000. This is why there seems to be a performance penalty.

(I am ignoring the fact that SteamVR is applying supersampling at 100% anyway)

In my case I used to run a SteamVR setting of 200% but now have it set to 100% and use the DCS PD set at 1.4 and get the same FPS and quality, I did this simply for ease of changing the settings in one place.

I forgot the point of my post, I was going to say that you should pick one or the other, DCS PD or SteamVR.

The is no benefit in running a mix of both, but they do stack and SteamVR comes first.

so if you ran a 1000x1000 display and asked for a steamVR setting of 150% and then a DCS PD of 1.5 you would in fact be doing the following:

1000x1000 = 1000000 pixels +150% = 1500000 pixels

so steam vr asks DCS for a resolution of 1224x1224

then DCS applies a PD of 1.5 so:

1224 X 1.5 = 1836x1836

This is exactly the same as setting Steam VR to 337% just harder to figure out . ;-)