Why am I stuttering with 100 FPS?

Hi all!

Picked this one up at best buy a few days ago and I am looking forward to learning to fly this beast. So far I havent even plugged in my X-52 yet..just been watching the training tracks and demo videos and occasionly arcading a little with keyboard flying. Anyway, while I am watching any track or flying around I get a "mini" stutter about every 5 seconds or so. Fraps shows me getting any where from 80 to 120 FPS with an occasional dip down to the 40's with action going on. I have all video settings on medium with the exception of detail on the units which is on high. I run a clean rig with latest drivers on all devices and all other sims and games run like butter. I have the latest patch so I was hoping someone can help me out? I have Alt tabbed out and know the affinity is on all cores but I also noticed the sim is only using like 300 megs of ram or so. I have other sims that do this and it kinda bugs me that they dont make use of all that high speed memory that I have sitting there waiting.:mad: I dont know if these mini stutters are from hard drive swap or not...I dont think so. I have looked through the forums but most peeps have stutters associated with low FPS....thats not the case here. Any help is greatly appreciated!

My specs are in my sig:thumbup:

Hello.

Could you read this thread and do the steps hinted at there: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=44466

Most interesting would be a DxDiag output file to get an overview of the driver situation, which peripherals are used (since some issues are caused by incompatible hardware) and so on. Hopefully the 5-second stutters will be easy to fix - I would suspect that it is either loading from disc or that there is something funky with the sound.

I run a clean rig with latest drivers on all devices and all other sims and games run like butter.

Most simulations use a table-system to simulate the flight model, DCS actually simulates airflow, momentum, and so on. And a lot of physics related to lasers and so on. It'll find a way to max out any processor currently out there. :)

I have Alt tabbed out and know the affinity is on all cores but I also noticed the sim is only using like 300 megs of ram or so. I have other sims that do this and it kinda bugs me that they dont make use of all that high speed memory that I have sitting there waiting.:mad:

That is peculiar. I'll have to doublecheck what it eats over here, I am quite certain that it is a fair bit more. Though it's the first time I've seen someone specifically ask for a higher commit charge on a software application. :P

A note though: a normal 32-bit application can only adress 2 gigabytes of memory. If it's made aware of larger adress spaces (and I think it has to sit on a 64-bit OS) it can adress 4GB. No 32-bit process will ever use all 6GB you have on that system. That's what 64-bit processes are for, but right now there is no 64-bit distribution of DCS. (I think there's a prototype in the lab, though, but no promises on when and if it becomes feasible to publish it.)

I'll get back to that once I've been able to get some process viewers to see what my memory charge is. It should also be possible to view from within the simulation, I will find that key command for you.

I dont know if these mini stutters are from hard drive swap or not...I dont think so. I have looked through the forums but most peeps have stutters associated with low FPS....thats not the case here. Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

My specs are in my sig:thumbup:

Yeah, it might be either the harddrives doing something funny, or a sound driver related issue.

I think I know what you saw, memorywise: you alt-tabbed out and opened the Task Manager, which by default displays the Private Working Set of the dcs.exe process. This lists around 350MB for me. However, this is not the sum total of memory used by the application.

While flying, hold the right control key and press pause twice, and you'll be given a bunch of information about the status of the process, including memory. Picture is attached below. This was largely confirmed when monitoring the process (which doesn't include the memory used by D3D for graphics and such memory uses), picture also attached. (The latter is an application named "Adress Space Monitor".)

So on the memory use side I believe your case is completely normal and it's just the Task Manager giving an incomplete picture.

Are you using trackir?

Wow! What a quick response!

You are exactly right about how I was looking at just the process and thinking that was what was being used...good call.:thumbup: As far as the physics maxing out the processor, I dont doubt this baby is greedy when it comes to the CPU but almost always that will start to show by giving you low FPS. As I said my FPS is around a solid 45 on the low side and up to an average of 85 or so on the high side. I dont think I have seen such high frames with a stutter in my flight simming years (since 95'). As far as the sound goes, I am for the first time using the Soundmax onboard sound that came on my Intel p6t deluxe board. I know what your thinking....putting a soundblaster card was priority one on any of my pc builds in the past as onboard sound was just icky, but this supports 7.1 and HD audio and sounds pretty good and has performed well on all other Sims and apps. I tried to look and see if there is a driver update but no go. Soundmax drivers seem to be a big grey area as there isnt an "official" site to get them.

Let me just say again how impressed I am with the quick response and the help!!:D I really appreciate it.

Are you using trackir?

No...I have never been able to talk the wife into believing that was necesary for me to enjoy my flight sims. (she actually doesnt care much

for them...but what wife does?)

No...I have never been able to talk the wife into believing that was necesary for me to enjoy my flight sims. (she actually doesnt care much

for them...but what wife does?)

Well then hurry! Soon you'll miss the christmas opportunity :doh:

Anyway, your problem could have been caused by trackir but nevermind.

As I said my FPS is around a solid 45 on the low side and up to an average of 85 or so on the high side. I dont think I have seen such high frames with a stutter in my flight simming years (since 95').

Yeah, that would lead me to suspect that it is either loading things from disc or that there is a driver-related issue of some kind. Could you test with making sure you are not forcing Antialias, Anisotropic Filtering, Vsync and so on through the driver just to ensure that this is not the issue? You could also try disabling Catalyst AI, just in case.

Another possibility is overheating which might cause the processor to "speedstep" to decrease heat generation. This should then manifest in more applications than just DCS, but it's possible that DCS pushes it just far enough to overheat. I personally usually use an application called "RealTemp" to monitor temperatures, and I have a Gadget in the sidebar that monitors temperature for my graphics card.

Also, do run a DxDiag (Start - Run - DxDiag) and see if there is anything interesting in the Notes section, in case there's registry conflicts or remnants of old drivers causing issues. Again though, this should manifest in most demanding simulators, but worth eliminating anyhow.

Lastly, sound:

As far as the sound goes, I am for the first time using the Soundmax onboard sound that came on my Intel p6t deluxe board. I know what your thinking....putting a soundblaster card was priority one on any of my pc builds in the past as onboard sound was just icky, but this supports 7.1 and HD audio and sounds pretty good and has performed well on all other Sims and apps.

I actually use onboard sound as well, nothing wrong with it nowadays, in my opinion.

You can test this as a possible cause through disabling the sound cirquit in the control panel. It'll be boring to play without sound, but as an avenue for testing whether it is caused by something in that department nothing beats that test. RCtrl-Pause will display FPS while in flight, and you can of course also use an application like FRAPS to record your framerates through it's Benchmark function.

Also, ensure that all unecessary peripherals are disconnected, just in case. If you use a Sidewinder Mouse, try replacing it temporarily (they have some issues with DirectInput, though usually they would cause the simulator to simply not fuction at all). Same if you have a G15 gaming keyboard or similar - see if anything changes if you disconnect it or replace it with a standard keyboard.

If any of those steps cause the issue to go away we will hopefully be close to resolving the issue. Obviously, the order in which you perform them would depend on how easy they are for you to perform - testing with standard Keyboards is usually simplest, but not if it would mean running off to the neighbor to deliver the unusual request to borrow their keyboard for 10 minutes. :P

Let me just say again how impressed I am with the quick response and the help!!:D I really appreciate it.

My pleasure, but thanks. :)

I prefer to remove all sound devices and make my own as I fly along. I find it gives me an extra 10FPS and everything sounds like I expect it to.

I tried a few things from the suggestions so here we go. I ran real temp while playing a mission with some action and it reported the hottest it got was 54 degrees C. I was pretty sure it would be fine, when I was establishing my overclock I used the Prime95 torture test to put at full load to get a stable & cool overclock. The airflow in these monster Alienware cases is pretty good so I think the weather isnt an issue. I turned off the 3 A's...AA,AF and AI. It seemed the stutter was about every 10 to 15 seconds instead of every 5... hard to tell how much it improved because stutter is difficult to monitor with accuracy. It was still there..but even that small improvement isnt enough for me to play with the jaggies and lose those great graphics. I disabled the soundmax device in the device manager to test with no sound and no go. The Launcher.exe would error out and not let me launch the game. I think it is having an issue with the music that starts playing before the game window even opens up. I tried restarts etc. but couldnt get it to fire. I disabled the sound in game instead, on the audio tab but it didnt do anything...I didnt think it would cause the device drivers are still loaded in windows.

The keyboard being a possible issue is a stretch I think...I dont have another one to test with anyway, but chances are its fine since other sims are fine with it. I benchmarked a mission track with FRAPS..it was the defense one i think? I am on my daughters laptop right now so I dont have the exact numbers but it was something like Min 43 Avg 81 Max 142. Good frames but stutter was apparent every few seconds. I am getting the feeling that its my hard drive. I defrag often but I have alot of data on there and Vista takes FOREVER to defrag. I havent tried My Defrag yet..but I had Game Booster defrag the DCS folder.

Anyway...since there are not a bunch of peeps that have the same problem as me, my rig must have a gremlin in it somewhere. Thanks for the suggestions!:D

One thing to test, which might not be the funniest to do on a performance machine, but worth checking: get Notepad++ and open C:\Games\BlackShark\Config\graphics.cfg

At line 364 it should say

MaxFPS = 0;

Change the 0 (which basically shuts the function off) to an arbitrary number, say 60. Since the stutters didn't decrease the minimum below 43 I think you are generally doing well with the system (many players have maximums below that. :P ) but that doesn't change the fact that if there's quick jumps between 100 and 50 the human brain will notice and will get distracted. In some cases these limits manage to kill whatever was causing it. (I just realized the screen I attached earlier had an FPS of 30 because I had forgotten to reset that option after testing the function :D )

But, again, when editing files like that, make sure to use Notepad++ and not regular windows notepad. The latter usually works fine, but there have been cases where it manages to corrupt the syntax.

You read my mind. Earlier during testing I tried to enable vsync in the ATI CCC but I have not seen vsync work in this control panel since they changed the setting to a slider instead of just a tick box. I was able to smooth out game play in Arma 2 by using a 3rd party FPS limiter since the ATI control panel is useless. I will try your method as soon as I can wrangle the rig out of my sons hands, he's playing Order of War right now.:noexpression:

Thanks!

I also suffer for hickups :). I kind od give up on it, but I can tell you it all happened after I switch to w7 64bit with 6 g of ram. Before altough my fps were lower it was silky smooth on vista 32bit with 3 gig of ram. Tried everything and nothing seems to work.

I had this problem, and found it was related to software I had running in the background. It was a process of elimination to find the offending program. But since I found it I have been running stutter free.

The way to check if something external to BS is interfering with BS (or LOMAC too) is to have the AI (preferably a low poly model like maybe a Tu-95) fly at about 500m above the sea in an empty mission.

Go to F2 view and look straight down at the water. You will probably have about 120fps but you will notice instantly if there is any micro-stutter in the motion of the water.

If it is completely smooth, then it is not something external to BS causing the stutter, it is BS itself.

Nate

Force10, try disabling swap file. I had similar problems with DCS and (back in years) Battlefield 2, and both times the problem was resolved. My 4GB seems more than enough for use - your 6GB would run with no hitch.

I'm having the same issue with windows 7. It has been great on vista 64-bit and xp pro, but a clean upgrade to win7 64-bit has it almost unplayable. Things are fine if flying along alone, or in the quick missions, but flying in to a battlezone has me with 0.5 - 1 second pauses if I fire a missile for the first time, or if something is inbound towards me...forget it, I have no chance to evade.

When I try to disable the sound device in device manager, "launcher.exe has stopped working" and need to close the program.

Tried disabling swap file, newest drivers, etc etc.

edit: added dxdiag attachment.

DxDiag.txt

When you say "0.5 - 1 second pauses if I fire a missile for the first time", I take it that means it does not reoccur the second time you launch? If so, I would be looking at your soundcard or HDD drivers. Your hard drive appears to be a regular ATA as opposed to SATA?

It is regular ATA. I have the exact same hardware as before when I had no issues. And yes, I meant that the first time I fire a missile, it pauses...but after that it gets better. It seems like the first time anything is loaded...a SAM launch at me, a distant MRLS launch, a new radio message...I get the pause.

One thing I did just notice. The SHKVAL is jittery when I am in full-screen mode, and when I leave the cockpit graphics on, the performance is much better. I do usually fly without cockpit when in combat for better visibility, this appears to be part of the problem. I have turned everything I possibly can off in the background. I upgraded my via onboard sound drivers as well, to the windows 7 version. But to me it seems as though slewing or seeing something new in the SHKVAL screen is part of the problem, and the virtual cockpit fixes this. I'm not ready to abandon my fullscreen though lol

I am using the default chipset drivers, because i cannot find updated ASUS ones for the motherboard. M4A78 pro.

Thanks for the reply. I can't say it's the games fault, since I had it working very smoothly in previous versions. It is annoying though.

The only slow period previously was right after engine startup, and perhaps just as lifting off, near the beginning of missions. Now it is almost any time something new comes near me.

Ah, I take that back about the fullscreen. It still slows down in a busy area. The shkval really seems to putter along badly. It's difficult to even lock up a target because it jumps and skips so much.

Have you tried switching to Vista versions of your sound drivers? They should work, and in some occassions the newest vista drivers haven't been "officially" Win7-certified and Win7 therefore does not feel like installing them on it's own, causing you to end up with older drivers than you would have to.

The biggest suspect would be the HDD though, or it's driver set, since it appears that this happens when there is cause to load something into memory.

Obviously though, ensure that you have a rescue disc on hand, since it allows you greater freedom to test other drivers on more critical components (like HDD, chipset etcetera), but the only Vista-switch I've seen so far have been people using Vista drivers for their graphics card, joysticks, sound card and such. Not sure if I would recommend testing Vista chipset driver (someone who runs 7 would have to chime in on that).

I agree with you there, I'm going to mess around with the HDD & sound drivers a bit more...probably poke around in the BIOS too.

All else fails i'll run a dual boot with vista or xp. Thanks again.

If some specific driver swap meets with success, do chime in since that might help someone else.

And hopefully one of the Win7 guys will stop by when refilling eggnog to share some ideas.

I disabled sound in the bios but can't even get it to run at all without sound.

Problem Event Name: APPCRASH

Application Name: Launcher.exe_unknown

Application Version: 0.0.0.0

Application Timestamp: 4a817b84

Fault Module Name: SDL_mixer.dll

Fault Module Version: 1.2.8.0

Fault Module Timestamp: 4832cba3

Exception Code: c0000094

Exception Offset: 00007796

OS Version: 6.1.7600.2.0.0.256.1

Locale ID: 1033

Additional Information 1: 2b61

Additional Information 2: 2b617c6f27ff96e0da4a895faba60808

Additional Information 3: c5f0

Additional Information 4: c5f0f157ba747825ad8c90ffa769ff60

I'm out of eggnog! :(

MarkyMark, I cannot see any big problem within your DxDiag.

However, you are using "Standard IDE";

--------------

System Devices

--------------

Name: Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller

Device ID: PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_439C&SUBSYS_82EF1043&REV_00\3&267A616A&0&A1

Driver: n/a

Name: Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller

Device ID: PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4390&SUBSYS_82EF1043&REV_00\3&267A616A&0&88

Driver: n/a

I've found that the "VEN_1002&DEV_439C" and "VEN_1002&DEV_4390" to belong to either something called "AMD SATA Controller(Native IDE Mode)" or "ATI Xpress200 SATA/chipset". Is this correct?

I would expect that the performance of your computer may improve if you install the drivers - instead of relying on the standard Windows 7 builtin drivers.

You may have to go search your mainboard vendors site to find the drivers. :)

I disabled sound in the bios but can't even get it to run at all without sound.

Ah, yes - I dont know why I'm able to disable sound and run it - no one else have been able to successfully test without sound.

Could be something to do with my system vs your systems.