DCS and Pimax

I've had all three. I would put Vive's tracking as the top with Rift *right* behind it. Since this is DCS, I'm not talking about room scaling. I neither have the need nor the room anyway. The placement of Vive is a little more involved due to power requirements, so that's a slight drawback. And it makes a little buzzing sound which I thought was kind of weird. So net/net, tracking Vive wins hands down. Rift is just behind, and Odyssey is not as good. It's OK, but it does lose tracking from time to time. Still, orders of magnitude better than TrackIR. Odyssey is very playable with DCS.

 

 

From FPS perspective, no real difference if you discount ASW/ATW of Rift. When I had the Vive, there was not support for any of it. So Rift clearly had the advantage. Today, Vive (and I'm guessing Odyssey) has similar technology. Rift and Odyssey? No perceivable difference to me in terms of FPS or quality of the picture. This is why ultimately, I returned the Odyssey. All things being equal, I preferred the tracking of Rift. For DCS, I felt that Rift had better clarity than Vive. Not world's apart difference, but easier to read in Rift than Vive.

 

Minor things.

 

HMD comfort? Rift, Odyssey, then Vive (the single cord variant was available when I got the Vive)

 

Controller accuracy: Vive, Rift, then Odyssey. Vive is clearly better than Rift/Odyssey

 

Controller ergonomics? Rift, then Vive/Odyssey tied.

I am just curious on how much of this was Odyssey's fault that didn't improve DCS. Wouldn't DCS rendered distance. Or DCS reprogrammed 3d rendered distance be locked so not matter what VR HMD you use it would not look improved? I am no expert in VR but I think there has to be some point to were it has to stop. Like some games I have played built for VR seem linear and there textures and colors are painted different. DCS is beautiful and high textured in 2d but its to much information to rendered it in 3d as far a you should be able to see. Maybe DCS is locked to current VR standards in resolution! Just a thought!

I am just curious on how much of this was Odyssey's fault that didn't improve DCS. Wouldn't DCS rendered distance. Or DCS reprogrammed 3d rendered distance be locked so not matter what VR HMD you use it would not look improved? I am no expert in VR but I think there has to be some point to were it has to stop. Like some games I have played built for VR seem linear and there textures and colors are painted different. DCS is beautiful and high textured in 2d but its to much information to rendered it in 3d as far a you should be able to see. Maybe DCS is locked to current VR standards in resolution! Just a thought!

I actually think there is a limiting function on DCS. Which would explain why the home screen did look clearer in Odyssey. But there's also the lens interaction that matters and brings a lot to the equation. So my comments are limited to DCS (pre 2.5) because that's what I use VR for 98% of the time. I try out a few games here and there, and I've even kickstarted Elite Dangerous - though I've not even downloaded it yet.

@hansangb from your experience and as fact that VR experience is all in one not just displays but the tracking as well. If we take in consideration tracking as major part of VR experience same as the picture this prove how Pimax5K/8K will be competitive in hardware consumption with Vive or Rift but need to be a version with Vive Lighthouse tracking.

So the conclusion here is there is no place for concern about hardware requirements. No need for much more than today's top VR systems.

That is the only thing I was trying to confirm based on some fact, calculation and personal experience from some veteran VR user.

Thanks m8.

@hansangb from your experience and as fact that VR experience is all in one not just displays but the tracking as well. If we take in consideration tracking as major part of VR experience same as the picture this prove how Pimax5K/8K will be competitive in hardware consumption with Vive or Rift but need to be a version with Vive Lighthouse tracking.

 

So the conclusion here is there is no place for concern about hardware requirements. No need for much more than today's top VR systems.

That is the only thing I was trying to confirm based on some fact, calculation and personal experience from some veteran VR user.

 

Thanks m8.

Yes. I don't know that I would KS'ed even with the added resolution because if the tracking is off, all bets are off. I was pleasantly surprised that they didn't suffer from NIH syndrome. Looking forward to end of summer when I get my hands on my Pimax (no, nothing official, just my gut feel that I won't have it until end of summer - which I'm OK with)

Bottom line : If the Pimax 8k works as advertised, it will be magnitudes better than the current generation headsets. However, for foveated rendering to work, I think it has to be programed into the game.

Maybe someone from the ED team can give a update on this ?

Looking forward to end of summer when I get my hands on my Pimax (no, nothing official, just my gut feel that I won't have it until end of summer - which I'm OK with)

If this delay is because seeking perfection all delay is forgiven.

Bottom line : If the Pimax 8k works as advertised, it will be magnitudes better than the current generation headsets. However, for foveated rendering to work, I think it has to be programed into the game.

Maybe someone from the ED team can give a update on this ?

First, we need hardware support for FR. Pimax is first who planing progress in that field and good thing is that they will not focus on that, they will just doing support for it. Eye tracking and FR will be made by third party probably same company which will do the same for Vive.

Vive doing the same but Eye tracking and FR have 60% less effect on 110° VR than on 200° VR.

That we can expect be ready for commercial use in minimum one year or even more. From DCS perspective it is only and logical step to increase VR performances. DCS is highly demandable for hardware resources so it is need everything that can help.

Pimax 8KX will be capable to do 4K per eye native resolution without SDE on 90Hz.

So with eye tracking, FR and proper 2x SLI/CF for VR where we use single GPU per eye even with 2x GTX 1070 will be adequate to run DCS full details on 4K 90Hz. (Pimax 8KX will have double DP connectors).

One thing to compare. Todays Rift and Vive run at around 10.8 PPD (Pixel Per Degree) and Pimax8KX will run at 25.6 PPD.

For all of this to run properly technology exist already for years and now will be supported for a first time with some VR. So next step is for Games developers to implement it. There will be no excuses to not to do it now.

Even from the price perspective, this will be doable. You will need rig based on i5 8600K, 16Gb RAM with 2x GTX 1070 and Pimax 8KX. With today's prices for such rig and Pimax 8KX with hand tracking and eye tracking module should cost around 2500$ but worth every cent and will be not much more than it is today what we need for dissent performance on CV1 or Vive.

Future is already here and it is bright. Pimax 8K could even direct Vive in the right direction soon too so we will get an even brand competitor.

When did Nvidia start supporting SLI for VR, did I miss something?

When did Nvidia start supporting SLI for VR, did I miss something?

https://developer.nvidia.com/vrworks/graphics/vrsli

Hmm, i wonder if it "just works" for DX11? Meaning DCS? I'm thinking not.

https://developer.nvidia.com/vrworks/graphics/vrsli

 

Hmm, i wonder if it "just works" for DX11? Meaning DCS? I'm thinking not.

Yes but isn't that just for the Unreal and Unity engines or am I reading that wrong?

I am reading like its a list of compatibility with DX11, OpenGL and built in to Unreal and Unity engines. Maybe this is for a developer so if your game engine is anything other then Unreal or Unity you can program it in to your game engine.

It sure would be nice, wouldn't it?

Will be also great to see future DCS support for Vulcan. This could go in favor of AMD graphic card because they have significantly better performance in Vulcan than Nvidia.

I will like to see some first benchmarks and Nvidia AMD comparison in Vulcan performances. I think Vulcan also have Liquid VR technology implemented.

But all this just suggesting that things in VR world moving forward in the right direction and Pimax 8K makes it possible to implement it. Without Pimax 8K all this work from DCS will be pointless and now it is just around the corner.

Vulcan has LiquidVR support. So will be interesting if this will working in DCS already after Vulcan support implementation. It is expected that after April will get stabilized GPU market and drop the price on starting point where RX 580 is 200$ not 450$ like it is now. So you can get 2x RX 580 for 400$ what is 200$ less than GTX 1080 ti but with 30% better performances minimum.

Vulcan has LiquidVR support. So will be interesting if this will working in DCS already after Vulcan support implementation. It is expected that after April will get stabilized GPU market and drop the price on starting point where RX 580 is 200$ not 450$ like it is now. So you can get 2x RX 580 for 400$ what is 200$ less than GTX 1080 ti but with 30% better performances minimum.

 

First seeing, then believing. Not for nothing i went for 4 years back from SLI to one card. Before that i had crossfire. No way i get back to SLI/Crossfire.

:D

GTX 2070 and GTX 2080 comes in april! Yeah!!!

First seeing, then believing. Not for nothing i went for 4 years back from SLI to one card. Before that i had crossfire. No way i get back to SLI/Crossfire.

 

 

Just calculating. Vulcan is actually based on AMD Mantis technology so Liquid VR should work because it is part of the Vulcan.

Will be really interesting to see is it and how will this work.

And yea, I agree we need to see benchmarks first before switching to some new technology but the point is technology is already here for full 4K per eye at 90 FPS and it is affordable. Just need to be implemented and used.

Nvidia technology need to be implemented in DCS first.

VRSLI is only supported partially in DX11 hence the direct support needed in game engines such as Unreal Engine and Unity. Add to that Nvidia only and you cut in half what is already a small group of muti-gpu users. The hmd drivers would also need to support it. AMD's Liquid VR offers the same quandary of being proprietary. I'm thinking we are quite a ways off from seeing either of these as viable. I have a feeling that meaningful advances made in how VR hardware and software work together will need to be resolved in OpenXR now that everyone who matters has signed on from Oculus and Valve to recently Microsoft and Pimax. As I understand it Vulkan is also part of the initiative. https://www.khronos.org/openxr

So dogbite that means we got all we need. If it is everything already implemented and we need a just minor update from ED to implement it in DCS.

It is here, available just need to be implemented no matter from who but it could be achieved in this year without much pushing from us consumers. That is the biggest beauty of Pimax. They will push things in right direction. Competition too.

Who will not join the dance will get out of the race and that's it.

ED had already stated they aren't going to implement proprietary tech.

So dogbite that means we got all we need. If it is everything already implemented and we need a just minor update from ED to implement it in DCS.

 

It is here, available just need to be implemented no matter from who but it could be achieved in this year without much pushing from us consumers. That is the biggest beauty of Pimax. They will push things in right direction. Competition too.

 

Who will not join the dance will get out of the race and that's it.

Not sure what it means beyond whatever solutions come to advancing how things work will at least have a standard where all parties are on the same page. If something like 2 GPUs, one for each eye in VR can be developed in OpenXR and be brand agnostic it might make coding for it more attractive. I'm thinking other things like foveated rendering will come before multi gpu especially when cost of admission is a factor to building a user base.

ED had already stated they aren't going to implement proprietary tech.

I don't see ED needing to do anything proprietary for Pimax since they have joined the Khronos initiative and support OpenVR at this time but I suppose one would have to ask Wags what "we are in touch with Pimax regarding their 8K system and how we can best cooperate for an amazing DCS VR experience" means in regards to that rule.

Another demanding title through the lens on v5

I don't see ED needing to do anything proprietary for Pimax since they have joined the Khronos initiative and support OpenVR at this time but I suppose one would have to ask Wags what "we are in touch with Pimax regarding their 8K system and how we can best cooperate for an amazing DCS VR experience" means in regards to that rule.

They aren't going to support Nvidia VRworks or AMD Liquid VR. If ish part of an open standard I imagine it will be supported as it woukdl be part of the API.

They aren't going to support Nvidia VRworks or AMD Liquid VR. If ish part of an open standard I imagine it will be supported as it woukdl be part of the API.

What makes you think I said otherwise?

Look at the colours, blacklevels and resolution.

The detail does look good...