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Dear Pilots of virtual planes,

 

at first I want to say, that I Love this game and its abilities. For me it’s the closest way to fly a military plane. It’s amazing how this whole game is giving the opportunity to feel like a fighter-pilot. But unfortunally, this means also that the expectations are rising higher and higher to a Level, thats way over what it should be. I‘m a Member in this Community and I‘m proud of it, but at some point I‘m a little depressed from this strange critics-culture. Critics are often communicated so angry, but why? The Team isn‘t bathing in the Money all the Time. Of course there are delays and of course people complaining about it, me included. But why so emotional? It‘s a great game and it adds some positiv stuff to each one who plays ist. So please treat each other with respect and avoid childish reactions. After all it’s a Game. And no reason to be radical (i played over 2000 hours) or angry to each other. Of course you pay money. But in EA and Beta things could change and you buy a idea of a product it you buy it EA.

 

My wish for the future. Please be proud to be a Member in this Community and please help the Rookies and don’t flame around.

 

„Flying away...“

 

Manu

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Pretty simple. Modules cost more than most triple-A titles and remain in EA state for very long periods. Regression bugs are introduced all the time. These factors lead to people getting frustrated.

My controls & seat

 

Main controls: , BRD-N v4 Flightstick (Kreml C5 controller), TM Warthog Throttle (Kreml F3 controller), BRD-F2 Restyling Bf-109 Pedals w. damper, TrackIR5, Gametrix KW-908 (integrated into RAV4 seat)

Stick grips:

Thrustmaster Warthog

Thrustmaster Cougar (x2)

Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS

BRD KG13

 

Standby controls:

BRD-M2 Mi-8 Pedals (Ruddermaster controller)

BRD-N v3 Flightstick w. exch. grip upgrade (Kreml C5 controller)

Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle

Pilot seat

 

 

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There is a lot of merit to that. Once in a while when reading around here you can get the feeling that DCS must be the worst piece of software ever to have existed. Obviously that is not true. If everything was terrible, nobody would complain as we all would walk away and be done with it.

 

There are a few factors, really.

 

#1 is what The LT said is, sadly, true. Progress is sometimes disappointing, especially since the price tags aren't exactly on the cheap side. Niche market or not.

 

#2 is something that really frustrates me at times: some bits are actually done very well! How does that frustrate me? Quite frankly, because usually for everything that's remarkable there is something - not very far away - that is in dire need of work, to put it carefully.

 

#3 (A bit related to #2) There are minor problems with DCS. Things that aren't much of a bother. Can just look past them, really. Only that they seem to take ages to be addressed, if at all, so just like a zombie horde they are strong in numbers.

 

#4 Communication. I have the feeling that his has improved a lot over the past year or so, generally.

Still it remains an issue. It is hard work and it takes a lot of time to investigate issues that the community reports. I understand that. Still, I can't stop but feel a bit sad about it when I write a report of a bug, at times including information gained through systematically figuring out circumstances myself, sometimes with pictures, sometimes with a track, and there is just no reply whatsoever. Not even the dreaded 'can't reproduce, post a track' one. Just nothing.

 

#5 Quite frankly, we are living in times like that. Not just in DCS, not just in software, but in the world. I find it a little short-sighted to simply blame the internet or social media or whatever, but they sure made the problem a lot more visible: people tend to think they are right. That's fine. The trouble is that nowadays the possibility of somebody else also being right seems to be shunned by millions. Why should that be different here then?

Complaining about others complaining won't solve that. A friend of mine always says: «Be the change you want to see.» We can all try to remain civil and polite and open-minded. Sometimes we fail at that. I know I do.

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People who get depressed from critics need either to fix some things about themselves, or should learn to look elsewhere if they don't like what they see.

 

Sometimes, heck many times, criticism is ridiculous alright. But at least as many times it is quite well deserved, and coming from people who does actually love and care about the sim.

 

Culture of counter-critics is at least as annoying as culture of critics. At least.

 

Criticism is at least actually aimed at hopefully making things better. Last few years, community getting quite fed up with certain things and being vocal about them, actually did bring about numerous positive changes.

 

Often when things get really ugly in community and heated back and forths start is when Order of the White-Knights mount a lance charge at valid criticism, and both sides lose their cool in process.

Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V

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In most top design schools, they have something called "Crit" session. Students put up their work and everyone takes turn criticizing it. No praises, just criticize regardless of how good it is. They do this for one, to get them used to being criticized so it doesn't hurt their feeling anymore (at first it really does hurt), and two, learn from it. Because you learn most from criticisms. Praises are nice but you don't learn anything from it.

 

You learn most about a product from negative reviews on Amazon. Not ones simply say "This is awesome!"

 

This is part of reason why most famous designers are known to be a$$e$.

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Pretty simple. Modules cost more than most triple-A titles and remain in EA state for very long periods. Regression bugs are introduced all the time. These factors lead to people getting frustrated.

 

Yup entirely this.

 

People are spending 50-80bucks per-plane, the same as any other AAA game. Said plane is incomplete for years. And even on older modules they age/bug out. Though to ED's credit I do like the free grafix upgrades, with the option for a "newer" version. Not to mention the problems are even worse with 3rd parties that also charge top tier prices.

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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Pretty simple. Modules cost more than most triple-A titles and remain in EA state for very long periods. Regression bugs are introduced all the time. These factors lead to people getting frustrated.

 

really?

 

full price of $ 80 is not more than a AAA title, on par. When they were EA they were about 20% off, and on a sale can be up to 50% off like the one we recently had, and with you tubers promo codes up to an extra 10% off.


Edited by Kev2go

 

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really?

 

full price of $ 80 is not more than a AAA title, on par. When they were EA they were about 20% off, and on a sale can be up to 50% off like the one we recently had, and with you tubers pro codes up to an extra 10% off.

It depends on the country, platform and distribution mechanism. In my country, fresh PC AAA titles on day-1 on Steam are always much less than $50 USD. YMMV, of course.

My controls & seat

 

Main controls: , BRD-N v4 Flightstick (Kreml C5 controller), TM Warthog Throttle (Kreml F3 controller), BRD-F2 Restyling Bf-109 Pedals w. damper, TrackIR5, Gametrix KW-908 (integrated into RAV4 seat)

Stick grips:

Thrustmaster Warthog

Thrustmaster Cougar (x2)

Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS

BRD KG13

 

Standby controls:

BRD-M2 Mi-8 Pedals (Ruddermaster controller)

BRD-N v3 Flightstick w. exch. grip upgrade (Kreml C5 controller)

Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle

Pilot seat

 

 

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+1, OP.

 

The problem is that a lot of people who voice their negativity here on the forums are usually those who totally underestimate the complexity of DCS modules.

 

Some even compare DCS to simple polished (often regurgitated) AAA titles that come and go year-after-year, while DCS in itself (and by merit) is a nothing short of a AAAA title (yes, 4x A - you saw that right) - plain and simple. It's deep, complex, and constantly improving.

 

They don't know how or care to perceive/understand/comprehend what's ticking under the hood in terms of development cycles needed to make our beloved planes do what they do realistically. And DCS offers realism in spades. In terms of flight modeling and system modeing, DCS is beyond what's available out there.

 

ED's push towards ever increasing realism created a paradigm shift in me that allowed me to step back and reflect on how much passion, work, tears, man-years, and ultimately love for the subject matter goes into each and every module. Once that paradigm shifted for me, I no longer sit on the forums and complain, but instead look forward to what's next and enjoy every minute in these planes.

 

DCS also started to attract more and more pilots who fly (and flew) those amazing planes in real life, and who are now spending time here on the forums to help us armchair pilots understand these modules better, or fly online with the community for fun, and are part of the development cycle as SMEs. This to me is a clear indicator that ED is doing more right than they're doing wrong, else these folks wouldn't show up here and participate to the extent shown.

 

I personally cannot start to comprehend how many man-hours and man-years go into each of those modules that ED and partners provide us with, but this is something that the wider community need to understand - and appreciate. Once that becomes clear, a lot of the constant bickering should make room for the awe of the technical achievement that DCS is today.

PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit

Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate

 

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Most negativity comes from being fed up with game-breaking bugs which take ages to fix, uf at all. Appreciation of the game's complexity has nothing to do with this. Development of essential aircraft features which drags on for years is also unacceptable for many. Look at the Harrier bugs list, for example.

My controls & seat

 

Main controls: , BRD-N v4 Flightstick (Kreml C5 controller), TM Warthog Throttle (Kreml F3 controller), BRD-F2 Restyling Bf-109 Pedals w. damper, TrackIR5, Gametrix KW-908 (integrated into RAV4 seat)

Stick grips:

Thrustmaster Warthog

Thrustmaster Cougar (x2)

Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS

BRD KG13

 

Standby controls:

BRD-M2 Mi-8 Pedals (Ruddermaster controller)

BRD-N v3 Flightstick w. exch. grip upgrade (Kreml C5 controller)

Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle

Pilot seat

 

 

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for the awe of the technical achievement that DCS is today.

 

I am on an overclocked i9 at 5ghz and a 2100 clocked 2080Ti and I get drops to 18 fps on the Channel map while I get 80-100 fps on the caucasus. This is anything but a technical

achievement. Please, don't try to pass it as one. The product is seriously outdated in more than a few areas and needs some serious QA in the performance department. Don't get people started on the "VR optimizations". They over-promisedand under-delivered big time on that. Although, to their credit, it seems they started to steer in the right direction and recent builds have shown slight performance improvements. It is still a long way to go. Time will tell. Hopefully, in our lifetime...

My controls & seat

 

Main controls: , BRD-N v4 Flightstick (Kreml C5 controller), TM Warthog Throttle (Kreml F3 controller), BRD-F2 Restyling Bf-109 Pedals w. damper, TrackIR5, Gametrix KW-908 (integrated into RAV4 seat)

Stick grips:

Thrustmaster Warthog

Thrustmaster Cougar (x2)

Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS

BRD KG13

 

Standby controls:

BRD-M2 Mi-8 Pedals (Ruddermaster controller)

BRD-N v3 Flightstick w. exch. grip upgrade (Kreml C5 controller)

Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle

Pilot seat

 

 

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+1, OP.

 

The problem is that a lot of people who voice their negativity here on the forums are usually those who totally underestimate the complexity of DCS modules.

 

Some even compare DCS to simple polished (often regurgitated) AAA titles that come and go year-after-year, while DCS in itself (and by merit) is a nothing short of a AAAA title (yes, 4x A - you saw that right) - plain and simple. It's deep, complex, and constantly improving.

 

They don't know how or care to perceive/understand/comprehend what's ticking under the hood in terms of development cycles needed to make our beloved planes do what they do realistically. And DCS offers realism in spades. In terms of flight modeling and system modeing, DCS is beyond what's available out there.

 

ED's push towards ever increasing realism created a paradigm shift in me that allowed me to step back and reflect on how much passion, work, tears, man-years, and ultimately love for the subject matter goes into each and every module. Once that paradigm shifted for me, I no longer sit on the forums and complain, but instead look forward to what's next and enjoy every minute in these planes.

 

DCS also started to attract more and more pilots who fly (and flew) those amazing planes in real life, and who are now spending time here on the forums to help us armchair pilots understand these modules better, or fly online with the community for fun, and are part of the development cycle as SMEs. This to me is a clear indicator that ED is doing more right than they're doing wrong, else these folks wouldn't show up here and participate to the extent shown.

 

I personally cannot start to comprehend how many man-hours and man-years go into each of those modules that ED and partners provide us with, but this is something that the wider community need to understand - and appreciate. Once that becomes clear, a lot of the constant bickering should make room for the awe of the technical achievement that DCS is today.

 

 

You hit on the nail! I get frustrated with all the new comers that don't do their research and assume DCS can be compared to just another AAA game. And let me not even get into the ones that can not understand why certain aircraft are not in DCS yet.

 

To me the cost of each module is worth every penny because I understand the work that goes into developing an aircraft at this level of fidelity.

To me $80 is very affordable compared to the price of an RC airplane which can run $240 for a 70mm EDF jet to $560 for twin 80mm EDF F-14. And thats not even including the batteries that can cost up to $100.

 

And on top of that RC airplanes can only be flown at certain areas and in good weather. Oh and then there is always the risk of crashing and the airplane being a total loss. With DCS you can fly any time and without any risks. Its the cheapest flying experience around.

 

 

 

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Wow!! why do people always make Monster out of a critic, They are criticizing because they love the product they have. It allows the product to grow, Constructive criticism is good, but negative criticism also has place. They show what went wrong and what needs to be addressed quickly. The community is a democratic system, everyone has right to voice their concerns. That's how Dev knows What is going on. White knighting doesn't get you far.

 

Since DCS is the best sim on the market and is a monopoly in it's genre(no competition). That's why there is nothing to drive DCS to achieve what it can achieve. We as a people should pester more, so it can achieve what it can be. Someday a new competitor will rise and take the throne really quickly, since you are stuck white knighting old, crumbling ideals. See Intel vs AMD. (Intel stuck in old ideologies and never improving from 14nm processors).

 

So that's my 2 cents.

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really?

 

full price of $ 80 is not more than a AAA title, on par. When they were EA they were about 20% off, and on a sale can be up to 50% off like the one we recently had, and with you tubers promo codes up to an extra 10% off.

 

 

Wait what?

 

 

Y4XbxlI.jpg

Banned by cunts.

 

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IMHO price is understandable since, most DCS modules at least, can't be sold to a hunderd thousand people, but still may take years to develop and mature.

That price of 1,825.51 is ... so low since if one buys and flies all those modules that is all one can do in life :-)

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Wait what?

 

This is just like adding the cost of every software there is for Windows, and then use that as the "cost" of Windows ... DCS itself is free, and you purchase the DLC that you want, who forces you to purchase everything?

 

For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra

For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600X - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia GTX1070ti - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar - Oculus Rift CV1

Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB

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And then we have the Supercarrier (nice work on it), 50$ for a runway with animated crew... 50$ = AAA game. If they continue to charge us for runways...

 

 

As for the topic of this thread, criticism is good and constructive criticism is even better, but negative criticism is just lame.

 

 

Imagine this,

 

 

Hey guys you did a great job, but I think this needs to be improved or fixed = positive

 

 

or

 

 

 

Hey this thing is shit how can you put this crap up etc... etc... = negative

 

 

Both times a critic but there s a big difference.

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As for the topic of this thread, criticism is good and constructive criticism is even better, but negative criticism is just lame.

 

Agreed, I won't name names but I can think of at least one person with an issue, refused to provide trackfiles, recordings etc. Nobody else in the thread could replicate the issue, then this person responded with insults, when doing it properly would've taken less time and effort as all the mouthing off this person did.

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

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Agreed, I won't name names but I can think of at least one person with an issue, refused to provide trackfiles, recordings etc. Nobody else in the thread could replicate the issue, then this person responded with insults, when doing it properly would've taken less time and effort as all the mouthing off this person did.

This.

 

 

This software is exceptionally complex. Each plane, the depth to which it is modelled makes checking it all patch on patch impossible. The game engine, the DLC, the updaters, the shop, the art assets, just so much. Instead, ED have said many times they rely on the public and the current OB process, which they recently expanded.

 

 

The QA guys work flat out, the forum mods work flat out, the devs work flat out, and everyone cares about having a good product. Which it is, but moans about imperfections, which are normal, in software. Every now and then there is a clanger. No different to all the whoopsies I've seen at work.

 

 

So imagine when someone goes into an inspecific rant because they want to vent but they don't actually provide any detail about what the problem is?

 

 

It's hard. The mods must be made of titanium with Teflon coating. Hour after hour going through Discord, here, reddit. Looking at posts that are too vague to act on. We are lucky, larger companies tend to outsource the entire front line staff to a call center specialist overseas. Instead we get some humans, that you know care.

 

 

 

All i'd say on this thread is, you know what, frustration, slips out, but if you took your time to be frustrated on the forums, you will have way more success and impact if you put a track down, steps to reproduce, explain the issue and get detailed with an issue. The rest is hot air and get's ignored pretty quickly!

___________________________________________________________________________

SIMPLE SCENERY SAVING * SIMPLE GROUP SAVING * SIMPLE STATIC SAVING *

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This is just like adding the cost of every software there is for Windows, and then use that as the "cost" of Windows ... DCS itself is free, and you purchase the DLC that you want, who forces you to purchase everything?

 

 

This is the same sort of cancer as the time subscription softwares, like photoshop, that has taken over the market nowadays. Before, you'd paid £80 for the whole package. Now, they charge you that for just a single plane. :thumbup:

Banned by cunts.

 

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Before, you'd paid £80 for the whole package. Now, they charge you that for just a single plane. :thumbup:

 

Well, then go back to flying in LO-MAC and be happy with your lots of simple planes ... I will keep trying to wholly learn complex airplanes and helos. :)

 

For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra

For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600X - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia GTX1070ti - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar - Oculus Rift CV1

Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB

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...

It's hard. The mods must be made of titanium with Teflon coating. Hour after hour going through Discord, here, reddit.

 

I had to give up on reddit .. there was no way to have a polite debate with their users ... one couldnt help but wonder why they kept flying on a Sim that they hated so much.

 

... you will have way more success and impact if you put a track down, steps to reproduce, explain the issue and get detailed with an issue. The rest is hot air and get's ignored pretty quickly!

 

I fully agree .. I love to help people with issues, but I’m still learning to ignore those post that only provide a rough description of the problem .. why so many think that we have a crystal ball to get info about their PC or config?

 

For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra

For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600X - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia GTX1070ti - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar - Oculus Rift CV1

Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB

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