World Scale is off (Everything is tiny!)

At least typical Ukrainian house (the most numerous older ones built maybe in the 80s) is very small (something like a Finnish cottage) and that might apply to Georgia and Russian Caucasus also.

I agree , gonna make some testing in VR.

Textures may also be one reason, stock houses are quite low rez so maybe not enough detail to eyes etc..

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In the 3D hanger, the Mig-29 seems to be about right when i stand up from my chair

In the 3D hanger, the Mig-29 seems to be about right when i stand up from my chair

I am bought Combat Air Patrol 2 and scale it is amazing !possible setup pov, size ...this need in dcs AM feel in airplane!!!

Feels right to me. I think some1 is correct about the Ka-50, it's likely that the hand model is actually too small, but not something one notices unless in VR. That's why content creation for VR is tough... all these details become more noticeable.

I am bought Combat Air Patrol 2 and scale it is amazing !possible setup pov, size ...this need in dcs AM feel in airplane!!!

How does it compare to DCS?

Scale in VR is purely down to your perception and nothing more. If you convince yourself the scale is out, you will just see it as being wrong. However, there is nothing at all outside the environment of VR to compare it to, so scale is totally irrelevant.

 

It just is what it is, and your mind provides the perception of scale, nothing else.

This is not true. I don't want to pick on Evochron Legacy but go load that up. Depending on the settings, the cockpit chair is like HUGE 4-5 times what it should be. This certainly is NOT intended and it is not perception. The scale is just way off. The developer even has settings to change this for various items in the game.

But in DCS I have to say I don't perceive anything to be wrong with the scale.

we need exactly this possibility Enlarge Decrease world scale

like this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhDL0lmI7hI

This is off topic isn't it? This has nothing to do with scale and everything to do with zoom.

PLUS, it does exist in DCS!!!

This is off topic isn't it? This has nothing to do with scale and everything to do with zoom.

 

PLUS, it does exist in DCS!!!

This information Video....yes I'm right and I'm sorry to not see the difference as is the in oculus ...

This is not true. I don't want to pick on Evochron Legacy but go load that up. Depending on the settings, the cockpit chair is like HUGE 4-5 times what it should be. This certainly is NOT intended and it is not perception. The scale is just way off. The developer even has settings to change this for various items in the game.

 

But in DCS I have to say I don't perceive anything to be wrong with the scale.

OK, how do you measure anything visual in a VR headset? Size is relative within an environment that just consists of visual perception. The only way to interpret scale in a VR environment is it's relationship to other objects within the same realm.

I repeat - there is no such thing as scale in VR. You see what you see, and how your mind interprets it determines it's size. As long as all things within that realm are in proportion, the size of an object is merely a figment of your own imagination. How else can you fit the entire universe into a space measuring just 40 x 50 mm? You can place the entire Milky Way Galaxy into that confined area. Explain that to me please if there is a constant scale in VR that determines everything's absolute dimensions?

Because it is a 3 dimensional world, so you can judge distance. Size can then be determined by comparing the object relative to your own size, accounting for the distance from yourself. Things such as a galaxy are too far away to be able to perceive the distance as each eye will have an almost identical image and therefore the scale iis difficult to determine. This is a different scenario to dcs scale though.

tridef software It is a good example....it is posible setup size ,and 3d deph....

Each person perceives differently VR depth and it is good to have the possibility to setup...

for my best VR airplane it is l -39

Because it is a 3 dimensional world, so you can judge distance. Size can then be determined by comparing the object relative to your own size, accounting for the distance from yourself. Things such as a galaxy are too far away to be able to perceive the distance as each eye will have an almost identical image and therefore the scale iis difficult to determine. This is a different scenario to dcs scale though.

You can set eye position and zoom in DCS World, so again, a null argument. Simply put, in a virtual world, you don't have anything external to the image to judge it's size against. Therefore, scale cannot be determined, and scale is therefore not a factor. All that 3 dimensional vision provides is a relationship between objects in 3 dimensions. What you perceive your size to be is determined by external factors - i.e. your own perception of reality versus virtual reality.

So, again, there is no such thing as scale in a virtual environment as it is an aspect "filled in" by your mind's interpretation of what it is seeing. We could get into the whole perception versus reality discussion and how it applies to the real world and how the brain interprets it, let alone a virtual one, but life is simply too short.

You can set eye position and zoom in DCS World, so again, a null argument.

This isn't accurate. You can't set zoom (FOV) in VR.

You can set eye position and zoom in DCS World, so again, a null argument. Simply put, in a virtual world, you don't have anything external to the image to judge it's size against. Therefore, scale cannot be determined, and scale is therefore not a factor. All that 3 dimensional vision provides is a relationship between objects in 3 dimensions. What you perceive your size to be is determined by external factors - i.e. your own perception of reality versus virtual reality.

 

So, again, there is no such thing as scale in a virtual environment as it is an aspect "filled in" by your mind's interpretation of what it is seeing. We could get into the whole perception versus reality discussion and how it applies to the real world and how the brain interprets it, let alone a virtual one, but life is simply too short.

Well I dont know why you make it so complicated. There is a scale in VR, start flyinside or Project cars and play with the scale setting a little bit and you will understand what are we talking about. You can make things huge or tiny and it is not just a perception thing... you can make things obviously huge or tiny. Just try it, lower the scale slider in flyinside to the lower setting and it will look like you are in a toy world or make the scale to the higher setting and you have the feeling that you can play football inside the cessna's cockpit.

Both flyinside and x-plane has demos, so try and then come to comment.

I will repeat that most probably we all see different results due to our different IPDs. Higher IPD means lower scale and vice versa. AFAIK the IPD in DCS is 64 which is sort of standart and most people are close to this number. However mine is 69, which makes the thinks look a little smaller. It would be good to hear from EDs opinion about this. I am sure they are reading.

Well I dont know why you make it so complicated. There is a scale in VR, start flyinside or Project cars and play with the scale setting a little bit and you will understand what are we talking about. You can make things huge or tiny and it is not just a perception thing... you can make things obviously huge or tiny. Just try it, lower the scale slider in flyinside to the lower setting and it will look like you are in a toy world or make the scale to the higher setting and you have the feeling that you can play football inside the cessna's cockpit.

Both flyinside and x-plane has demos, so try and then come to comment.

 

I will repeat that most probably we all see different results due to our different IPDs. Higher IPD means lower scale and vice versa. AFAIK the IPD in DCS is 64 which is sort of standart and most people are close to this number. However mine is 69, which makes the thinks look a little smaller. It would be good to hear from EDs opinion about this. I am sure they are reading.

I agree with your.

Applications may be administered on a global scale? (maybe start petition?) Can someone to ask about the ED? thanks

The worst cockpit VR scale in DCS have the MiG-21 (look at this tiny fragile switches on the right panel) compared, in 2D on the Monitor looks everyting OK. I sat already in one RL MIG 21 MF. The Mirage-2000 ist the second worst VR Cockpit.

Standing outside, near the plane, the external model scale seem to be OK.

The best VR scaled cockpit in DCS has the Albatros L-39. Maybe the Viggen, I don´t own them.

Cheers.

I tested the PSVR in DCS and the off scale was my biggest gripe. I thought that stemmed from the reduced resolution of the PSVR but apparently this is not so.

The worst cockpit VR scale in DCS have the MiG-21 (look at this tiny fragile switches on the right panel) compared, in 2D on the Monitor looks everyting OK. I sat already in one RL MIG 21 MF. The Mirage-2000 ist the second worst VR Cockpit.

Standing outside, near the plane, the external model scale seem to be OK.

The best VR scaled cockpit in DCS has the Albatros L-39. Maybe the Viggen, I don´t own them.

Cheers.

you are right best Vr it is in L-39!

The worst cockpit VR scale in DCS have the MiG-21 (look at this tiny fragile switches on the right panel) compared, in 2D on the Monitor looks everyting OK. I sat already in one RL MIG 21 MF. The Mirage-2000 ist the second worst VR Cockpit.

Standing outside, near the plane, the external model scale seem to be OK.

The best VR scaled cockpit in DCS has the Albatros L-39. Maybe the Viggen, I don´t own them.

Cheers.

Look at this video linked in reddit today:

You can see the switches are really tiny in the Mig-21. For example the switches beside the pilot's right knee (fuel pumps switches).

I was part of the "mig-21 cockpit is too small" crowd, but now I think that maybe the rest of the cockpits are a tad too big and make this more accurate cockpit look too small.

Now I have more relaxed view about these details. As long as it isn't really bad is better not to pay much attention to them and enjoy the whole VR thing.

That's a good philosophy! I know some guys into audio that tinker ENDLESSLY with getting flat frequency response, trapping bass, etc. And when I asked "but how does it sound" I got a blank look. So somehow, the tinkering became the dominant factor! :)

I get it..it's being passionate. But sometimes, we have to enjoy the music and not the equipment.

That's a good philosophy! I know some guys into audio that tinker ENDLESSLY with getting flat frequency response, trapping bass, etc. And when I asked "but how does it sound" I got a blank look. So somehow, the tinkering became the dominant factor! :)

 

I get it..it's being passionate. But sometimes, we have to enjoy the music and not the equipment.

Some 'overclockers' are the exact same way. ;)

There seems to be some confusion about the difference between zoom, scale, and FoV.

For the case of 'things feeling small', what I mean about scale is actually zoom/FoV.

The "scale" of the game is correct. Relative to each other: a P51 has a wingspan of roughly 11.3m compared to the Fw190's 10.5m wingspan. We know this because gun convergence calculates properly with the different gyro gun sights, and if you set any aircraft side by side, they appear to be the correct scale compared to each other. I haven't gone as far to test the exact game scale, but I would assume if you placed 10 Fw190's wing tip to wing tip, you should cover ~105m on the map.

The problem in game is that our FoV/Zoom to the world is off. The best example I can give would be to give you a pair of binoculars and have you flip them around.

I'm sure most of you have done this as a kid. Everything appears tiny and far away! Look through them the proper way and everything is big and close up!

We all know binoculars aren't magical grow and shrink rays (As much as we wish they were). They simply give us a different perspective (zoom).

It is the same in game. The 'scale' of the world is still 1:1. If I eject from the plane and go prone using room scale, I won't sink under the world. If I were taller than the in game pilot avatar, I would expect to sink under the wing he is standing on or under ground if I were standing at eye level with him.

The problem is my perspective is zoomed out... so it is as though I am looking through a pair of binoculars in reverse.

All of aircraft I have checked seem to have a slightly off FoV. They appear 'small', zoomed out. It is easier to check in aircraft that allow you to enable the pilot body because I have hands, so it's easier to see that the scale is off when I see tiny hands in front of me. So far I've checked the UH-1, A-10, Su27, Mig-21, Viggen, Sabre, SA-342, Ka-50, and all of them appear small. There may be an aircraft with a different initial FoV/zoom, but most of them seem the same.

Why the Vive touch controllers aren't affected by this? I expect it is because they are spawned off of your camera's perspective and not the in game scale. So they are 1:1 scale with your camera's FoV, but larger than any of the avatar hands in the world.

When you are using a monitor, you can set the zoom/fov, head position, ect, but this file doesn't seem to work with VR at the moment. (Unless there is a hidden config for VR that I have missed.)

Hope this clears things up a little :thumbup:

If it was fov, you will see some distortion in the edge of the screen and when something is next to you it will appear like it is in front, you will get motion sick and 1:1 head tracking will feel strange. It is simply a general scale. Yes objects compared to each other are correct but this doesn't mean the scale is 1:1 to the real world.

And I will repeat again everyone that cant imagine the scale in the 3d world go and download demos of xplane/flyinside and play with the scale and then come back here to say what it is.

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If it was fov, you will see some distortion in the edge of the screen and when something is next to you it will appear like it is in front, you will get motion sick and 1:1 head tracking will feel strange. It is simply a general scale. Yes objects compared to each other are correct but this doesn't mean the scale is 1:1 to the real world.

And I will repeat again everyone that cant imagine the scale in the 3d world go and download demos of xplane/flyinside and play with the scale and then come back here to say what it is.

 

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+1 for this. Just test with VR and you see :)

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OK, how do you measure anything visual in a VR headset? Size is relative within an environment that just consists of visual perception. The only way to interpret scale in a VR environment is it's relationship to other objects within the same realm.

 

I repeat - there is no such thing as scale in VR. You see what you see, and how your mind interprets it determines it's size. As long as all things within that realm are in proportion, the size of an object is merely a figment of your own imagination. How else can you fit the entire universe into a space measuring just 40 x 50 mm? You can place the entire Milky Way Galaxy into that confined area. Explain that to me please if there is a constant scale in VR that determines everything's absolute dimensions?

My mind is interpreting the scale based on what the developer programmed and what they programmed is a scale that is OFF. Simple as that.

For example the chair is intended to be 2 feet across yet in VR it appears to be 5 feet across. Therefore the scale is OFF.

Are you saying that my brain is OFF and for some reason I'm seeing a 5 ft chair yet most others are seeing a 2 ft chair or all of us are seeing a chair of different sizes based on how our own brains are interpreting things?

I have no idea where you are getting these notions of and no idea why you haven't seen this in some games unless of course you've never tried VR before which seems more and more likely based on your points here.