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Pitch Preset Curves "Y"-axis


DieHard

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I found a post by another player that recommended his custom curve setup to mimic a neutral trimmed aircraft at cruise speed.

 

I cannot find the post message to thank him.

 

AXIS_CONTROLS

 

Check Slider ON

 

Check Curves ON

 

for "Y" = 0, 5, 12, 21, 32, 40, 45, 59, 74, 88, 100

 

I have CH Products Fighterstick using the CH Control Manager in Direct Mode

 

This works really nice for me. The 109 flies stable now!

 

Whoever you are >>> THANKS


Edited by DieHard

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I found a post by another player that recommended his custom curve setup to mimic a neutral trimmed aircraft at cruise speed.

 

I cannot find the post message to thank him.

 

AXIS_CONTROLS

 

Check Slider ON

 

Check Curves ON

 

for "Y" = 0, 5, 12, 21, 32, 40, 45, 59, 74, 88, 100

 

I have CH Products Fighterstick using the CH Control Manager in Direct Mode

 

This works really nice for me. The 109 flies stable now!

 

Whoever you are >>> THANKS

 

Will certainly give it a try DieHard - thanks for bringing this because I too remember having seen it but couldn't recall where :-/

 

Just out of curiosity, nose heaviness is common to the 109s I use in my two combat flight simulators, the only difference being that in DCS the elevator trim tab not being adjustable ( contrarily to what they did a few patches ago available for the rudder and aileron tabs ), is probably set at neutral "0.0", while in my other sim it is set to a bit tail heavy, and I can clearly see the effects even on ground when applying power and watching the elevator deflect up... Other than that, should they both have their elevator trim tabs set the same way, the same feel would be present, and, from Klaus Plasa explanations, it's OK the way it feels being set this way, and nose heavy trim is required also in real life as the aircraft accelerates after takeoff.

 

I just would like, and honestly do not understand why not implemented ( ?? ), to be able to set the elevator ground adjustable trim tabs, just as we can do to the rudder and the aileron.... What the heck makes that so complex to implement ?


Edited by jcomm

Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...

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Nose heavy trimm needed with speed increase mean that plane got positive longitudal stability. The same when deacelerate its need nose up trimm position to counter nose down tendency.

 

E.x flaps down generaly casue pitch down tendency ( CP is moved backward but also CL is rise) but it is also depend of downwash and its influence for horizontal tail. If downwash AoA in tail will be high it would casue stronge tail down tendency which could overide wing nose down tendency :P

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JCOM. Maybe the engine cannot comprehend two trimming ways at once for the same control type. One via elevator trim tab and second as horizontal stabilizer.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies.

 

My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS.

My channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyAXX9rAX_Sqdc0IKJuv6dA

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I have played a few different WWII sims over the years, beginning with my Commodore 64, LOL!

 

DCS is the hardest to relearn. Like having a stroke, then relearning to tie my shoe strings again, like that.

 

I can have the 109 down real good---takeoffs and landings. Switch to 190 or P-51, fly those for awhile, come back to the 109 and have to relearn my takeoffs and landings. Same goes switching between the 190 and P-51.

 

I don't mind, I really enjoy the copters and WWII birds in DCS. Best there is of the sims I have tried including FSX.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I'm not much of a world traveler but I bet it would be fun, us guys, different countries, all get together some big air show somewhere and shoot the bull.


Edited by DieHard

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I don't mind, I really enjoy the copters and WWII birds in DCS. Best there is of the sims I have tried including FSX.

 

On that, I couldn't agree more - By Far the Best flight dynamics I was ever able to use in a PC-based flight simulator.

 

And yes, just as you, being away from the 109 for a while makes quite a difference.... I had quited playing DCS for only two weeks and when I came back yesterday I really had some problems taking off with the 109 with an unlocked tail wheel ( I like the thrill :-) )


Edited by jcomm

Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...

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I just would like, and honestly do not understand why not implemented ( ?? ), to be able to set the elevator ground adjustable trim tabs, just as we can do to the rudder and the aileron.... What the heck makes that so complex to implement ?

 

I would really appreciate that as well. Now since the last update to the MW50 tank I think tail heaviness is less of an issue, but still a few elevator trim tabs would be awesome! I have been using aileron trim tabs with great effect since the implementation. :thumbup:

Cougar, CH and Saitek PnP hall sensor kits + shift registers: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=220916

 

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I setup ground trim in SPECIAL for the 109. Adjusted the slider for the aileron only and turned on the 2 auto items, one at 100% and it flies really nice in Single Player / Instant Action / Takeoff.

 

I tried this same setup on the ACG and DoW MP servers in 1.5.2 and its all screwed up. I'm guessing they disable it to have a more even playing field.

 

Well, my pitch curve still is nice and balanced and I can adjust pitch trim very nicely done in-flight with a joystick rotary control on both the MP servers.

 

So, will now try to get the aileron roll curve nicely setup.


Edited by DieHard

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DieHard,

 

again, thank you for having remembered those Y axis settings. I tried it and am sticking to those as the 109 is much easier to handle that way, the elevator trim tab not being adjustable, otherwise I would rather prefer to adjust it, just as it is possible with the other two, but it's probably a limitation of the flight model, so... this curve works just fine!

Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...

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  • 2 weeks later...
I setup ground trim in SPECIAL for the 109. Adjusted the slider for the aileron only and turned on the 2 auto items, one at 100% and it flies really nice in Single Player / Instant Action / Takeoff.

 

I tried this same setup on the ACG and DoW MP servers in 1.5.2 and its all screwed up. I'm guessing they disable it to have a more even playing field.

 

Well, my pitch curve still is nice and balanced and I can adjust pitch trim very nicely done in-flight with a joystick rotary control on both the MP servers.

 

So, will now try to get the aileron roll curve nicely setup.

Diehard, what values did you set for the ground trim?

And did you manage to establish a roll curve that improves things in flight/combat? Sounds challenging with the big impact of prop torque!

With auto-rudder and take-off assistance the beast handles more easily for sure; but it's really a cheat:) isn't it?

PS: the pitch curve works well, I used to struggle to hold the nose down!

LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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  • 2 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Well I'm back on the Bf-109 after some months playing with other modules, but man what did happen? I just can't fly the thing anymore, it behaves very strange, doesn't fly smooth at all and I'm having deep troubles trimming it right. The pitch up issue is by far the smallest one that I experience, and I can overcome that one, but for the rest the flight is heavy, erratic, difficult to predict. I guess I have my settings all wrong, will have to read more about this. I can imagine the oversized engine torque causes many issues, but when I flew it many patches ago I didn't have these issues at all.

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It takes practice!

 

Well I'm back on the Bf-109 after some months playing with other modules, but man what did happen? I just can't fly the thing anymore, ...

I have been flying the Bf-109 since it became available, and it has been my favorite module for about a year. And honestly, I have not experienced any significant changes in the way it behaves in the air or during take-off and landing. Before the Bf-109 I had the Dora and finally managed to take off and land, and tried my luck in air combat vs. AI P-51. When I learned to fly the Bf-109 I found it superior and neglected the Dora. Now recently I forced myself to fly the Dora at least occasionally. And guess what? I couldn't even take off any more, let alone land.

I think that's what happened to you with the Bf-109. The two German fighters are objectively harder to handle than a Mustang, and that's a reflection of WW II reality. You need to fly them until you develop the reflexes for dealing with their behaviour. But once you master the Bf-109, it's a terrific machine in combat!

LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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Would it be right to say you have to fly it with the engine as much as with the wings? I have the impression you could pull the engine out of the airframe in mid-air! playing with the throttle more as I normally would already helps me fly it better. The pitch preset also helps.

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Propeller torque is part of the control inputs

 

Would it be right to say you have to fly it with the engine as much as with the wings? I have the impression you could pull the engine out of the airframe in mid-air! playing with the throttle more as I normally would already helps me fly it better. The pitch preset also helps.

I don't disagree with your opening statement. Propeller torque has a big influence on the bird's in-flight behaviour, and especially at low speeds it can have more influence than your ailerons and rudder combined. When you have to make turns at very low speed it's useless to try and fly against it. A slow right turn is almost impossible at full power; better reduce power and let the fixed trim pull you to the right. A slow left turn at high power is dangerous especially close to the deck, as the propeller pulls you downward. I find fast right turns easier to control than fast left turns. Normally I avoid changing the throttle when I close in to a target because it makes me lose my aim. But sometimes when I'm at the limits of ailerons and rudder, a well-dosed throttle change can help me to point my nose to the target. This all takes practice until you give the right inputs without thinking.

LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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Yes I can relate to what you are saying, and I'm gradually feeling more at ease with this bird. I was also flying too low and too fast, once at decent altitude this aircraft really comes to life!

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This reminded of IL2. While the game might be long dead since the demise of CoD this method of adjustment is nearly identical.

So I searched around for the old settings I used to use in IL2 and found this:

http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Knowledge_Base&op=show&kid=261

In it is the old IL2 slider adjustment system with several examples. From the link:

"The actual settings that work best vary depending on what joystick you're using, what aircraft you're flying and what your personal preferences are. To give you an idea how much they vary, here are a few examples:

 

Oleg Maddox:

Roll: 1 3 6 12 21 32 44 61 81 100

Pitch: 1 4 8 15 24 33 44 60 77 100

Yaw: 0 10 19 32 43 54 63 74 86 100

 

crazyivan1970:

Roll: 27 38 52 63 69 75 83 88 93 100

Pitch: 28 44 55 62 70 79 88 93 96 100

Yaw: 29 40 48 57 66 76 86 93 95 100 plus 7 deadband.

 

The Author:

Roll: 13 21 28 39 53 65 77 88 96 100

Pitch: 22 28 37 45 54 65 77 88 97 100

Yaw: 35 41 48 56 67 76 82 89 95 100

 

As a starting point, the author suggests the following:

Roll: 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100

Pitch: 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100

Yaw: Leave it at default for the time being."

 

I am using a very mildly tweaked version of the great Oleg's settings with great success in the 190, 109, and P-51.

Hope these are useful.

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  • 7 months later...

Over the holidays I picked up the 109 190,p51, and the Spitfire ( and many others)

I don't have any issues with trim except at take off. ( The plane is flown like a drunken sailor)

Until I get the speed up. I the trim like all the other WWII prop planes and jets. It takes me about 30 secs and it is set. Am I missing something?

Why all of the dig numbers/ curves? Are they prop pitch and throttle settings as well?

My biggest issue is on the airfield ������ mission, my engine seizes all the time w/o much stress to it.


Edited by Hermit713
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I fly the Bf-109, FW-190 and occasionally Spit and P-51D, and I do not not use custom curves any more (I did in the beginning). The flight models are realistic with the default linear "curves". If your joystick and/or pedals have a bad characteristic then curves may help.

LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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  • 9 months later...
I found a post by another player that recommended his custom curve setup to mimic a neutral trimmed aircraft at cruise speed.

 

I cannot find the post message to thank him.

 

AXIS_CONTROLS

 

Check Slider ON

 

Check Curves ON

 

for "Y" = 0, 5, 12, 21, 32, 40, 45, 59, 74, 88, 100

 

I have CH Products Fighterstick using the CH Control Manager in Direct Mode

 

This works really nice for me. The 109 flies stable now!

 

Whoever you are >>> THANKS

 

THANK YOU to you and whoever discovered this

 

This guide is a treasure. I can now finally trim and fly the 109

 

"

"
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