Colliding with own bombs during a divebombing attack, bug?

From my point of view, the vid is a "hard proof" of two things:

a) I can clearly see You were at declining slope;

b) The bombs passed through the airframe, and that's the only aspect You're right about. Collision modelling leaves lot to be desired in DCS, for example MiG-21 got collidable fuel tanks only in latest update, 2 years after release. I also numerous times witnessed AI planes in formation literally flying half a fuselage into each other without triggering collision. It is an annoying bug, sure, but apparently rare and low-priority one, so You just get used to it.

Whether bomb release affects longitudinal pitch moment of F-5 correctly (with constant stick position) - that indeed could be investigated further - I don't own the module, but whoever does could run a series of dives at various parameters and check how the plane behaves. I feel, however, that if it was pitching down immediately, people would notice it right away after module was released.

I took the liberty of recording the tacview, hope it helps.

 

 

 

 

AoA -3.8

 

G -0.3

 

-53.7 pitch

You cherrypicked a moment after or before release. Because I was very careful to not pull negative G on release. And in the exact release moment (when I pressed) it was +0.1.

From my point of view, the vid is a "hard proof" of two things:

 

a) I can clearly see You were at declining slope;

b) The bombs passed through the airframe, and that's the only aspect You're right about. Collision modelling leaves lot to be desired in DCS, for example MiG-21 got collidable fuel tanks only in latest update, 2 years after release. I also numerous times witnessed AI planes in formation literally flying half a fuselage into each other without triggering collision. It is an annoying bug, sure, but apparently rare and low-priority one, so You just get used to it.

 

Whether bomb release affects longitudinal pitch moment of F-5 correctly (with constant stick position) - that indeed could be investigated further - I don't own the module, but whoever does could run a series of dives at various parameters and check how the plane behaves. I feel, however, that if it was pitching down immediately, people would notice it right away after module was released.

It's great that someone finally acknowledges what the actual problem is. The bombs fail to collide with the pylon when it matters, then proceed to magically pass through the plane and then 10m away from it magically have their fuzes go off. And then that is presented as a realistic consequence of "pilot's error" for a very steep diving angle.

Even if I actually had pulled negative G (which I did not), then the bombs would have pressed against the pylons or bump against them gently and that would send them off in a vector that would make it impossible for them to collide with the plane.

You cherrypicked a moment after or before release. Because I was very careful to not pull negative G on release. And in the exact release moment (when I pressed) it was +0.1.

+0.1 is Still .9 away from the Start of the safe release window.

Sorry Spacehamster but you clearly can't understand what the other posters say to you. We have here Skate and BigNewy, both of them are in the ED Testers Team and can competently with more than enough evidence say that this is pilot error.

You only can get a good seperation of the Bombs from the Pylons when you are at or above 1.0G everything below that WILL push your plane into the Bombs trajectory. You are the one that has a lack of understanding in Physics.

So please let it be. It's pilot error, not a bug.

Granted, Bombs shouldn't pass through your wings, But the refresh rate and accuracy of the collision model is an entirely different thing.

Bombs wouldn't simply "ride the pylon" at +0.1G either,

As soon as they were released, the pressure waves from the Airframe would cause them to oscillate and eventually fly up into the wings and fuselage, and destroy the aircraft.

Pilot Error... IF we can see the HUD tape to prove it...

there is no HUD on the F-5, Just Reticle.

I think what he is trying to get at, is he thinks that if the collision model would have worked, the bombs would have gently touched the wings and he would be able to play ping pong with bombs.

I've never seen a bomb gently touch anything :)

 

 

As skate has said the damage model is being looked at by ED

there is no HUD on the F-5, Just Reticle.

See from the cockpit then....

See from the cockpit then....

the tactview replay shows that pretty much.

I think the point trying to be made is that in earth's gravitational field everything is experiencing +1G. ie that is normal even on objects sitting still. So what they are saying is if the instruments are telling you 0.1G then you have accelerated in a dive to offset gravity (1G or 9.81 m per sec squared) by 0.9G for a resultant of 0.1G. Only thing to clarify from your viewpoint really is - in level flight/sitting on the ground do the instruments register 1G or 0G? ie are they telling you the total of the vectors or the difference to normal gravity. I'm pretty sure it is the former but being at work can't check and that is also what Skatezilla and the rest are saying. If it was the latter then perhaps you have a point as that would be in effect saying that you climbed and were experiencing 0.1 above normal gravity.

The bombs will fall at 1G-ish until they reach terminal velocity which is pretty high. You're at 0.1G. You're 'falling' faster than the bombs in the vast majority of cases.

The bombs would have to fall at 0G or less to separate from your aircraft. They should probably not have separated to begin with, but the fact is that your release parameters are incorrect.

Even if I actually had pulled negative G (which I did not), then the bombs would have pressed against the pylons or bump against them gently and that would send them off in a vector that would make it impossible for them to collide with the plane.

0.0Gs is weightlessness,

1.0G is 1x the Normal Gravity

2.0G is 2x

0.1 is not .1 above normal, it's 1/10th of normal, almost Zero.

Selective perception. Bombs released at unconvenient dive angles probably slid along the pylons a million times. Instead of damaging the plane. Of course that does not get to youtube.

And it does not explain the magic floating bombs passing through the plane. If there was working collision, the bomb would very likely not have exploded, and sure as hell not 10m in front of the cockpit. And if I pull the tiniest bit of POSITIVE G then the vector of the bombs will be away from the plane, because 0.1 + means the plane's trajectory is changing and pointing away from the bomb vector after release, because the only thing acting on the bombs are inertia and gravity and air resistance.

Collision bugs causing freaky behaviour like that is not pilot's error. So blaming that on pilot's error is very irritating to players who take time to provide evidence of these bugs.

Use correct release parameters. This 'bug' is appropriate punishment for your poor flying.

And yes it's pilot error.

Statements like 'Bombs released at unconvenient dive angles probably slid along the pylons a million times' are meaningless. What's this based on? :)

Can't believe this thread is still going. We've all done it and learned from it, well, almost all of us :rolleyes:. Release at 1G or pay the price.

My new favorite quote of the year.

I've never seen a bomb gently touch anything

Just going to re-quote myself. Because you people show a lack of understanding of physics and vector math and reading comprehension.

 

 

They could not have continued on a magic path of 53 because then they would have to pass through my plane, which is physically impossible. But they did that.

The bombs continue on a 0g parabolic trajectory, not 53°. If you push into neg g, you will intersect that trajectory, simple as that. You pulled neg g shortly after release, ergo pilot error. Accept it, correct for it, profit. Or not. Suit yourself.

According to the track, you put NEGATIVE Gs during bomb release, very shortly, but long enough to get the bombs above you.

Sorry mate, your fault, you gone under 0G, bombs can't.

The Tac view recording is pretty clear, its just a bad release. I don't understand why this is such an issue for some, I hate admitting I am wrong 2 but take it on the chin and move on, that's the whole point, make mistakes learn from them and move on.

Selective perception.

:doh:

Sorry, but this was the mistake of pilot. You should go throttle full back and don't push the stick. Your acceleration was bigger than bomb acceleration. Just throttle down and after bomb release, gently pull stick to not overexceed maximum allowed G. After level off, you can add thrust again. I watched the replay and video. Everything in slow-mo and you released bombs in -0.4G. That means you was accelerating approx 19.56 m/s² to the ground. But the bombs in free fall can accelerate max 9,780 m/s² which is gravity acceleration. But they accelerate slower due air friction until the Friction force and gravity force is same.

Spacehamster, the 0G = ACCELERATION 9,780 m/s² Not constant fall speed. So the 0.1G = 8.802 ACCLERATION m/s² (you had -0,4G....13,672 m/s²) But the bomb can not accelerate faster because it is free falling and have to do something with the air friction. So it will start accelerate faster( or slower against aircraft when you have less G than bomb have which happened in your case) (or deccelerate in extreme air friction) until the forces of gravity and air friction are same. You can calculate your acceleration by equation (ABS(G-1)*9,780)