Visibility

+1

Model Enlagement created more problems than it solved. There are a ton of posts on here about it if you want to read through it all. In summary:

- Objects were visible at huge sizes way too far away, like 70 miles away

- Nobody could agree what level of enlargement was correct and so it was simply switched off on most servers.

- Even the smallest level made BVR combat pointless as aircraft were visible at ranges you’d normally need radar to detect them at.

- The system was pixel based and favored lower resolutions over higher ones.

- And no matter what the setting people still complain they can’t see anything.

Much of the “visibility trouble” in DCS comes from the players themselves

- Expecting to easily see other aircraft at ranges which are just unrealistic.

- Using bad graphics settings like turning off anti aliasing

- Refusal to use or misunderstanding the zoom view command.

It’s all been discussed here before at great length.

The only fault this player has is bad vision. Those with good vision don't complain much.

I could care less about multiplayer. I don't do that anymore. Give us better vision offline. We won't be cheating anybody. This should be fun. The AI see perfect. I don't. Help me out.

My system isn't the problem.

but also understand that someone could use a setting, not for their resolution, and give themselves an unfair advantage, and end up being a cheat,

The world is all moving towards higher resolution screens, better color space and higher res VR

So there’s just something basically wrong about encouraging players to use lower resolutions in order to get an advantage. It’s counterintuative. I would rather see “cheating” in the form of an 80” 8K display than an old 400x600 CRT :cry:

Some are so worried about cheating. When you have bad vision it's like everybody with good vision is cheating.

There should be an answer that puts us all on a level playing field. If not, at least allow offline players to have options.

NineLine:

So that means that because we are concerned about a 'cheater' that the rest of us are basically all penalized for being able to see in the game ???

It's like we cater for the 1% so the rest of the 99% suffer. We shouldn't be penalized for wanting to play the game on higher res monitors.

So there’s just something basically wrong about encouraging players to use lower resolutions in order to get an advantage. It’s counterintuative. I would rather see “cheating” in the form of an 80” 8K display than an old 400x600 CRT

amen, amen, amen.

I just got 3-4 of my squadron to fly DCS, first thing is "looks great, can't see jack shit" - who makes a game where it takes binoculars to see anything ?

Nothing can be jumped into, you could allow adjusting for different resolutions, but also understand that someone could use a setting, not for their resolution, and give themselves an unfair advantage, and end up being a cheat, then servers need to enforce their use, then they get restricted from being used, and we are back to where we started, so we need to look at everything, and see how it will affect every aspect.

 

I am not opposed to the idea, but we have to be cautious as well.

Tie the object size to the resolution - let us test it.

I get trying to make it work for 4k as much as 1080p.

Since we know a concept of object enlargement was put in place, and yet that was too big for lower resolutions, there should be a form of resolution detection that takes place that attempt to optimize the system for that user.

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I'm now running 1080p with degraded graphics experience just so I can see contacts in close range. Gone is the nice shiny 4k that I was wowed by when watching Wags videos.

I'm not doing it to 'cheat', I am doing it to just be able to be able to see.

It's a terrible solution.

I would suggest you stop looking at the minority problems and focus on the majority problems.

I also fully understand this statement will be ignored.

I haven't played in about a month and today I noticed a big difference with planes/objects not rendering as far out as usual.

 

 

2560x1440 monitor resolution.

 

 

Even contrails where popping in and out after a certain distance zoomed in.

 

 

This also make using Targeting Pods very hard, much of the targets aren't rendered until you are within distance.

I also get the contrails popping in and out, if I turn my head or slightly adjust the zoom things just pop in and out of view.

I am looking at the entire picture. Its a bigger picture than many are willing to accept or acknowledge. Again, its why I want to see many options, such as a very robust label system, on top of looking at other things like model enlargement based on monitor/resolution... etc etc...

Glad your looking- thank you sir!

I would suggest you stop looking at the minority problems and focus on the majority problems.

 

I also fully understand this statement will be ignored.

Nice attitude. I payed my money just like you. Sorry I got old and have bad vision now. I'd still like to play like everybody else.

There are already model enlargement studies done by the USAF and other air forces ... the docs are available and I'm certain that ED has them. It certainly must be combined with reading the resolution setting, and perhaps other things - it isn't easy to solve given that the 2D screen doesn't work like our eyes do.

The model enlargement should be a proxy - actually, if you'd like, an 'impostor' ... but not like the ones that were implemented before. Literally an enlargement of the graphics, and only within a very specific distance from the viewer. It should also depend on the size of the object that is being viewed - a KC-135 will turn into a 'dot' quite a bit later than an F-16.

How then, to deal with an aircraft on the ground, and ground targets? If impostors showed us anything, ground targets looked quite wrong as they became huge compared to their surroundings.

Didn’t really noticed, but mostly because spotting in DCS is soooo fricking hard, I basically gave up.

 

I enjoy DCS very very much, but I simply hate the fact that its almost impossible to pick anything up visually.

 

I know there are countless threads about this subject; its been worked on since time inmemorial...and yer its still broken somehow. (

Hope it's addressed soon just got my 3840x1600 widescreen hooked up and I don't want to go back to low res just so I can see bandits ......

They're not a separate issue; whatever is done should take care of everything. For close range there are air force studies which specify the realistic scaling fairly precisely. Like I said, ED is well aware of those things or rather - I would be very surprised if they were not.

One way or another, going back to the impostor system as it was is not a good solution - it was removed because it was not a good solution. It was choppy, aircraft could be seen 40nm+ away, complete with aspect etc.

Never mind what it did to ground targets.

I'm not even personally talking about dots rendering in the distance, it's the close range where things are not even visible - close combat range!

 

Older game, better visibility - sure our graphics are better, but all the eye candy in the world doesn't help if you can't see AC in a close fight.

 

I can only start to get that level of close visibility by lowering my res - and then I get this blurry aircraft

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I'm now running 1080p with degraded graphics experience just so I can see contacts in close range. Gone is the nice shiny 4k that I was wowed by when watching Wags videos.

 

I'm not doing it to 'cheat', I am doing it to just be able to be able to see.

 

It's a terrible solution.

Yeah, because it's a bypass for the real problem : poor awareness. Close in the contacts ARE VERY MUCH THERE. It depends entirely on your ability to pay attention. A WWII sim has slower speeds and.closer ranges than a modern jet sim, which is the main issue. People lose track easier when you're flying 500-1000+ knots each rather than 200-300+ knots each, extending rapidly out to a mile or two instead of a few hundred yards.

It requires more effort and focus because.... IT REQUIRES MORE EFFORT AND FOCUS. That's why fighter pilots are held to such high standards. It's hard.

Why don't we just cut to the chase and put huge 'shoot here' arrows so even the potatoes can stay eyes on @@

Yeah, because it's a bypass for the real problem : poor awareness. Close in the contacts ARE VERY MUCH THERE. It depends entirely on your ability to pay attention. A WWII sim has slower speeds and.closer ranges than a modern jet sim, which is the main issue. People lose track easier when you're flying 500-1000+ knots each rather than 200-300+ knots each, extending rapidly out to a mile or two instead of a few hundred yards.

 

 

 

It requires more effort and focus because.... IT REQUIRES MORE EFFORT AND FOCUS. That's why fighter pilots are held to such high standards. It's hard.

 

 

 

Why don't we just cut to the chase and put huge 'shoot here' arrows so even the potatoes can stay eyes on @@

Except that those flying the WW2 fighters are the ones complaining the most about this. And it’s often not finding a plane, but having eyes on it as it fades to invisible right in front of you.

I’ve turned on dot labels on single player because I was getting frustrated and stopped playing air-air on anything without a radar. Now I’ve got at least a small chance against the all-seeing AI.

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Nice attitude. I payed my money just like you. Sorry I got old and have bad vision now. I'd still like to play like everybody else.

I'm pretty sure you and I want the same thing and you misunderstood my post.

And hey, my attitude got me this far and life is good, thanks for your concern.

I had a lot of trouble with spotting too, for quite a long time. I stopped playing DCS altogether because of it. I just couldn't spot any ground targets or aircraft until they started shooting at me.

Ended up solving it with brute force, 1440p 32 inch display mounted on an adjustable arm so I can bring it close to my face for flying.

That was quite an expensive upgrade and not an option for everyone, and I'm astounded that this problem hasn't been solved yet after so long. The effect on gameplay is dramatic, those affected will stop playing because you just can't fight what you can't see!