MiG-21 used to be my favorite ride... can't stand it now

No complaints from my side. The Mig-21 is still an absolute blast! Really fun to fly.

No complaints from my side. The Mig-21 is still an absolute blast! Really fun to fly.

I don't want to come out as rude, but I really don't get this kind of comments when talking about a flight SIMULATOR.

Being "fun and a blast to fly" says nothing about how the module is a faithful representation of the real aircraft, which is what a study sim is all about. Actually, it would probably be more fun and more of a blast if it had thrust vectoring and carry 24 AIM-120s...

With regards to the canopy texture... no pilot.. 3rd world or other would take off with that much filth on his glass. Artistic impression or not. Its unrealistic for an operational aircraft.

Ovenmit, I'm mechanic on Mirage 2000, and I disagree with you.. In operational conditions, windshields and canopies can be pretty dirty (maybe a little too much on the M3LLC MiG-21, maybe). Deep scratches, impacts and crazing (near the defogging ramps) are also very common.

What are the problems of the MiG-21 that make it unrealistic right now ?

You don't give your aircraft canopies a quick wipe-down before the pilots get in? Pilots dont give you shit about filthy glass?

Im not talking about scratches and nicks, obviously that happens... Im talking about the black streaks of filth on the canopy.. affecting vision. They are too pronounced.

Im not the only one that has complained about this.. its been a common issue for a looong time...

Yes - I'll chime in to say this - "Fire the crew chief - he is a vodka-soaked incompetent, and negligent in his duty of care to this aircraft." Air crews POLISH the canopy perspex of in-service fighter aircraft before every flight. It is critically important that the pilot see very clearly. Only people with excellent eyesight are accepted as fighter pilots in the first place. The current 'improvement' of adding globs of black stuff and greasy handprints to the canopy, while showing great graphics skills, is highly unrealistic. No airforce crew chief worth his salt would allow his aircraft to get into such a shameful mess - he'd be busted down to private for such dereliction of duty. I find it highly irritating and stupid to inflict this on customers of this otherwise superb module.

It puts you at a huge disadvantage when dogfighting players flying other modules that have properly maintained canopies.

Ovenmit, I'm mechanic on Mirage 2000, and I disagree with you.. In operational conditions, windshields and canopies can be pretty dirty (maybe a little too much on the M3LLC MiG-21, maybe). Deep scratches, impacts and crazing (near the defogging ramps) are also very common.

 

 

 

What are the problems of the MiG-21 that make it unrealistic right now ?

Completely agree

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3489838&postcount=231

and

The canopy was so bad that Lt. Col North (at that time) stated "it was like landing with a paper bag on your head. HA! The family bus still got the job done that day.

http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/airframe-profile/3150/

Yes, thats right cherry pick one badly lit image and a single report of a guy putting extra hours on an airframe to get it to its inspection rate. Wow.

Air crews POLISH the canopy perspex of in-service fighter aircraft before every flight.

This is the way I know it, even on trainers.

Yes, thats right cherry pick one badly lit image and a single report of a guy putting extra hours on an airframe to get it to its inspection rate. Wow.

Cherry picking 15 year past experience working with aircraft. To clarify, non of those years on any version of Mig-21 so complete and utter conjecture on my part, just basing my opinion on working on F-16 from 1997 to 2004/ 2008 to 2012 and F-117 from 2004 to 2008.

edit

By the way, putting extra hour on air frame and achieving first AIM-120 kill by USAF.

So in your 15 year past.. you never made sure the canopies were as clean as possible before a flight?

To be clear.. im NOT saying perfect glass clean. Just not full of bird shit or whatever that is on the DCS Mig21

That is clean, you ever tried to clean bug smudges without damaging plexiglass? The balance is trying to clean it without using any hard tool that can damage it. A bug impacting the canopy at 200 knots can make a mess.

Anyway, I was agreeing with Jowen G. Bruère-Dawson, later.

That is clean, you ever tried to clean bug smudges without damaging plexiglass? The balance is trying to clean it without using any hard tool that can damage it. A bug impacting the canopy at 200 knots can make a mess.

 

Anyway, I was agreeing with Jowen G. Bruère-Dawson, later.

Except in the MiG-21 we don't deal with scratches and bug splats, we have black oily smears and bad specular reflections due to how those textures work in DCS 2.5. Just check Firmek's post from this thread.

Yes absolutely, the reflections are probably an even bigger problem than the dirt streaks and grainy filth effect.

It would be great if ED could implement canopies that get dirty during flight (along with fogging)... but thats probably not gonna happen...

I still maintain no crew would let an aircraft leave the ground like that.. never. Im not saying it needs to be a perfectly buffed to perfection canopy.. but geez.. someone cant run a cloth over that and some windex lol

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I still maintain no crew would let an aircraft leave the ground like that.. never. Im not saying it needs to be a perfectly buffed to perfection canopy.. but geez.. someone cant run a cloth over that and some windex lol

I’m confused.

We’re lucky enough on here to have input from people with REAL experience on aircraft related subjects, for which I’m really grateful.

DCS is after a “sim”, and strives for accuracy.

Whilst you might find it inconvenient, please don’t try to argue that it’s wrong.

oh, get off your horse.

No one has said anyone is wrong, I simply disagree on the state of the glass of a prepped aircraft in a game... taking into context the state of the other aircraft at ramp start.

Yes sure, an aircraft thats done 3 sorties and was parked under a tree till your flight might be dirty... not one thats fresh from a hanger.

oh, get off your horse.

 

 

No one has said anyone is wrong, I simply disagree on the state of the glass of a prepped aircraft in a game... taking into context the state of the other aircraft at ramp start.

Yes sure, an aircraft thats done 3 sorties and was parked under a tree till your flight might be dirty... not one thats fresh from a hanger.

Please. Go re-read your opening post and then compare to what you’ve written.

Maybe a better solution would be to request a user variable level or cockpit dirt?

See, that’s a lot more polite that saying the module is borked and a waste of your money.

Please. Go re-read your opening post and then compare to what you’ve written.

 

Maybe a better solution would be to request a user variable level or cockpit dirt?

See, that’s a lot more polite that saying the module is borked and a waste of your money.

The current situation is that currently only MiG-21 has such issues with the canopy glass. There are two separate problems though:

1. The level of dirt, smudges

2. Crazy amount of specular, blurred light reflections to the level that at some angles even a 30% of the canopy glass becomes non-transparent.

It sounds like a trivial and over discussed topic but in reality the view affects a core game-play experience. If I can't see the scenery, objects and fore mostly bogeys in MiG-21 whereas I can see them in every single other module there is something wrong with MiG canopy implementation. You can have an "educated" discussion about the level or dirt on canopy and bring the smudges SME's but at the end of the day there has to be some basic core game play experience guaranteed by every DCS module. If every single module provides the same experience and one is not, whose most probably wright? As far as I had last checked MiG is a part of DCS platform, not an standalone product. The visibility from MiG cockpit is so poor that its the only module that just to avoid a frustration I don't fly now. It's a pity since it used to be one of my favorite modules after Mi-8 and the recent updates to the cockpit interior are really great.

I'm not touching the MiG-21 because the FM is a joke, I don't even get to the part where I start worrying about the canopy. I'm surprised to see so much heat over a texture and som of you are calling this module to be otherwise "superb", lol, with all the FM and weapons system bugs / inaccuracies, this canopy thing should be pretty low on the list of priorities.

That said, if people with RL experience say the canopies are quite dirty, I believe that. Then it means every other module in DCS should be made equally realistic and have an equally dirty canopy.

Yes, you're supposed to clean them. In France we can do it, because our aircraft don't fly that often and we got a lot of special care cleaner for windshields and canopies. But I'll not be surprised to see operationnal MiG-21 with this kind of dirt on canopies in some African countries or former soviet countries.

I still maintain that it seems a little too much on the DCS fishbed.

What's wrong with the FM and weapons systems ?

To me it does not like grease, it looks like sealant like B1/2 or B 2 and the reflection just look like dew or moisture.

What's wrong with the FM and weapons systems ?

Serious question? If so a little list out of my head:

-SARH missiles do not work at all

-The SPO-10 should still indicate a direction when locked, which it does not

-The ASP is a complete mess

I can not really judge the FM.

I would really like the SAU stabilization program to work something like the real thing. It would make every phase of flight so much less work.

To me it does not like grease, it looks like sealant like B1/2 or B 2 and the reflection just look like dew or moisture.

B2 ? You used it ?

We currently use PR 1440 B2 as sealant and PR1440 A2 as sealant inside fuel tanks.

The ASP is a complete mess ? For Air-Air ? It seemed very accurate for rocket delivery last time I used it (1 week).

B2 ? You used it ?

We currently use PR 1440 B2 as sealant and PR1440 A2 as sealant inside fuel tanks.

Not in a long time but it was a pain, specially if you did not mix it properly and it dried to quick or to slow.