Schmidtfire Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 DCS ground AI has no issue engaging fast moving helicopters or fighter jets without fail and with great accuracy, This is the real issue. Mi-8 or F-16 does not matter, it will make swiss cheese out of you at low level flight. IRL most of those vehicles would try to escape or hide if knowing they are approached by a gunship or jet. Imagine sitting cramped up in a BTR, BMP or T-72. Then be able to spot a fast moving helicopter at low level. Even if you somehow manage to spot it in time the guns need to turned towards the target and lead properly. Even if the Mi-8 can be tweaked further, the real issue is ground AI engaging fast moving targets with great speed and accuracy. I do expect AAA, Shilkas, Igla teams etc. to be a real threat, not personnel carriers, tanks and such vehicles :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebabil Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 DCS ground AI has no issue engaging fast moving helicopters or fighter jets without fail and with great accuracy, This is the real issue. Mi-8 or F-16 does not matter, it will make swiss cheese out of you at low level flight. IRL most of those vehicles would try to escape or hide if knowing they are approached by a gunship or jet. Imagine sitting cramped up in a BTR, BMP or T-72. Then be able to spot a fast moving helicopter at low level. Even if you somehow manage to spot it in time the guns need to turned towards the target and lead properly. Even if the Mi-8 can be tweaked further, the real issue is ground AI engaging fast moving targets with great speed and accuracy. I do expect AAA, Shilkas, Igla teams etc. to be a real threat, not personnel carriers, tanks and such vehicles :huh: Correct. Every AI in the game is sharp shooter. very annoying. they never miss FC3 | UH-1 | Mi-8 | A-10C II | F/A-18 | Ka-50 III | F-14 | F-16 | AH-64 | Mi-24 | F-5 | F-15E| F-4| Tornado Persian Gulf | Nevada | Syria | NS-430 | Supercarrier // Wishlist: CH-53 | UH-60 Youtube MS FFB2 - TM Warthog - CH Pro Pedals - Trackir 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted December 13, 2019 ED Team Share Posted December 13, 2019 I'm trying to get similar changes done to ground units that we did with aircraft. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash * Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 I'm trying to get similar changes done to ground units that we did with aircraft. That would be great. :thumbup: System Specs: AMD Ryzen 5 3600, RX 6900 XT, 64GB RAM // Tobsen CM Kollektiv, VPC CM3 Throttle, VPC WarBRD Rudder Pedals, VPC T-50 CM2 + WarBRD Base VR: HP Reverb G2 Helis: UH-1H / KA-50 3 / Mi-8 / Mi-24P / SA-342 / AH-64D Jets: F-5E / F-14A/B / F/A-18C / MC-2000 / A-10C II / AV-8B / AJS 37 / MIG-21bis / F-16C / F-15E / F-4E (soon) WWII: Spitfire / WWII Assets Pack Tech.: Combined Arms / NS430 / Supercarrier Maps: Nevada / Persian Gulf / Normandie / Syria / South Atlantic Waiting for: BO-105 / OH 58D / CH-47 Chinook / G.91R / Tornado IDS / A-7E Corsair II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyBoot Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 Seems relevant: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Seems relevant: Not really, as Cap didn't even know where/what the armour was. In the youtube comments Cap says he'll retest. i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyBoot Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Not really, as Cap didn't even know where/what the armour was. In the youtube comments Cap says he'll retest. I was more thinking of the fact that he shot at the cockpit and an engine died from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted March 11, 2020 ED Team Share Posted March 11, 2020 I was more thinking of the fact that he shot at the cockpit and an engine died from it. Hmmm, that might be a global thing, I just requested a fix for that while testing the new DM, it was weird that anytime the pilot died or was required to bail the engine stops. I will test the Mi-8 with that. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUSTY Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Hey Nineline, So this issue has been apparent since late 2018. Is there any update on ED's official stance on the Mi8 damage model? :inv: F-15E | AH-64 | F/A-18C | F-14B | A-10C | UH-1H | Mi-8MTV2 | Ka-50 | SA342 | Super Carrier | Nevada | Persian Gulf | Syria | Intel Core i7 11700K - 32GB 3200MHz CL16 DDR4 - MSI GeForce RTX 3060 Gaming X 12GB - Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe SSD 1TB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159_Archer Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 I notice since flying the Hip last night (2/4/20) that the thing seems far more robust -hadn't used it for a few weeks 'in action' but last night I was hit by 3 bursts from a BTR and only on the last hits did I start to experience any problems. Previously, a bloke with a poorly maintained AK-47 could easily shoot down an Mi-8 from a mile away... Looks like it's about where it should be now damage-wise? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 159th Guards Aviation Regiment; recruiting now! http://www.159thgar.com/ We now fly all modern Jets and Helos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUSTY Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 I disagree. Sadly, singular AK bullets that hit the main fuselage or the belly of the aircraft still cause engine failures for me. When I get some time I'll do some testing and compile some video footage. F-15E | AH-64 | F/A-18C | F-14B | A-10C | UH-1H | Mi-8MTV2 | Ka-50 | SA342 | Super Carrier | Nevada | Persian Gulf | Syria | Intel Core i7 11700K - 32GB 3200MHz CL16 DDR4 - MSI GeForce RTX 3060 Gaming X 12GB - Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe SSD 1TB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159_Archer Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 I disagree. Sadly, singular AK bullets that hit the main fuselage or the belly of the aircraft still cause engine failures for me. When I get some time I'll do some testing and compile some video footage. Dusty, you got the last OB patch? (sorry, I should have mentioned that) This is thus not yet updated on the regular game AFAIK. I tested it again today, and had a hovering gun battle (door gunner me) against a platoon of AK armed geezers -about 1/2 click distant and it lasted about 30 secs -I killed some of them but yes, at that point -and after MANY hits from them, my Hip did splutter and go in. But, this was impossible previously. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 159th Guards Aviation Regiment; recruiting now! http://www.159thgar.com/ We now fly all modern Jets and Helos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grajo Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 (edited) Would not be this damage model "update" officially announced somehow if it happens? :huh: Would appreciate "some few words" about it from the devs, if it is the case and the damage model has been updated, then, what has exactly changed? Edited April 5, 2020 by Grajo Link to my MODs - So far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159_Archer Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Would not be this damage model "update" officially announced somehow if it happens? :huh: Would appreciate "some few words" about it from the devs, if it is the case and the damage model has been updated, then, what has exactly changed? Often, we don't get any word on these changes, which is a shame. But I have tested this pretty thoroughly now and there is deffinately (in Open beta) a change to the damage model. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 159th Guards Aviation Regiment; recruiting now! http://www.159thgar.com/ We now fly all modern Jets and Helos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grajo Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Copy that 159_Archer, I will give it a shot :thumbup: Link to my MODs - So far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molevitch Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Often, we don't get any word on these changes, which is a shame. But I have tested this pretty thoroughly now and there is deffinately (in Open beta) a change to the damage model. Good to hear this! SCAN Intel Core i9 10850K "Comet Lake", 32GB DDR4, 10GB NVIDIA RTX 3080, HP Reverb G2. Custom Mi-24 pit with magnetic braked cyclic and collective. See it here: Molevitch Mi-24 Pit. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] www.blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpenwolf Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Often, we don't get any word on these changes, which is a shame. But I have tested this pretty thoroughly now and there is deffinately (in Open beta) a change to the damage model. How did you test this? I fly the Mi-8 quite often and can only confirm what the main post of this thread has proclaimed. The DM of the Mi-8 is really frustrating. Some hits by some infantires and a number of system failures is underway. This is a very known old issue with this module and still no progress. Come on, son! Cold War 1947 - 1991 Discord Helicopters Tournaments Combined Arms Tournaments You can help me with keeping up the server via PayPal donations: hokumyounis@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159_Archer Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 How did you test this? I fly the Mi-8 quite often and can only confirm what the main post of this thread has proclaimed. The DM of the Mi-8 is really frustrating. Some hits by some infantires and a number of system failures is underway. This is a very known old issue with this module and still no progress. Come on, son! Hi Alpenwolf -I cannot say my testing was done scientifically, but I have flown the Hip ever since it was introduced, and as such I am well aquainted with how easy it was to shoot down since then. Be sure though I only fly using (and have installed only) the openbeta and it is only since the last updates, that I became aware of the change. I have deliberately flown into danger with the Hip against lighter threats -Infantry, BTR and BMP- and having taken many hits as such, am basing my opinion on these flights only. The difference is quite clear in the flights since the last updates, whereas before the Mi-8 was still very vulnerable. I might be wrong, but I don't think so, and cannot see why my experiences would be so 'obvious' if it weren't for the fact that they have changed something. BTW I do wish someone in the team would confirm or deny this...:doh::) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 159th Guards Aviation Regiment; recruiting now! http://www.159thgar.com/ We now fly all modern Jets and Helos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grajo Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 BTW I do wish someone in the team would confirm or deny this...:doh::) +1 Link to my MODs - So far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpenwolf Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 Ok, that's weird though. Haven't read anything regarding updates for the DM of the Mi-8 in any of the change logs announced by ED over the last months or even maybe years unless I overlooked it which is a possibility. You survive many BMP shots, you say?! Either the shots seem to always hit the tyres of your landing gear which would cause no system failures or you're pretty damn lucky. I'm not ridiculing your feedback, mate, just surprised by the results is all. A confirmation from ED would solve all the riddles regarding many issues concerning different modules, but they rarely do if at all. Disappointing to be honest, although I understand the policy behind it. However, I think do they've taking it to the extreme a bit. Cold War 1947 - 1991 Discord Helicopters Tournaments Combined Arms Tournaments You can help me with keeping up the server via PayPal donations: hokumyounis@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159_Archer Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 (edited) Might be worth me just mentioning that I ammended my 'test' mission with a small group of vehicles which 2 were BTR and a BMP. TBH I admit I didn't ever check in the AAR to find which vehicles had actually hit me -having just heard repeated bangs. I do know I was hit by a TOW from the BMP which did have fatal results in a subsequent running of the test, although I was able to land after that. The troop engagements were purely troops only. I will run this test again shortly, and actually study the file after to 'count the hits'... I will also make a track-file and watch it to see what/who fired and when. I can post it here if anyone is interested? Edited April 14, 2020 by 159_Archer [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 159th Guards Aviation Regiment; recruiting now! http://www.159thgar.com/ We now fly all modern Jets and Helos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireNZ Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 ED please watch Apache Warrior on Netflix (yes I noticed it was an Apache not a Hip) to see how resilient a heli is in general to small arms fire - I am getting a little tired with LDG Gear/Tailboom etc. falling off after a few rounds from an AK. Wanna fail engines/systems with an AK round through the engine/electrical bay - fine, but tail falling off - really? Also - for the love of all things Stalin, please make the Mi-24 a tank like it actually is in real life! Asus Maximus VIII Hero Alpha| i7-6700K @ 4.60GHz | nVidia GTX 1080ti Strix OC 11GB @ 2075MHz| 16GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200Mhz DDR4 CL14 | Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2 SSD | Corsair Force LE 480GB SSD | Windows 10 64-Bit | TM Warthog with FSSB R3 Lighting Base | VKB Gunfighter Pro + MCG | TM MFD's | Oculus Rift S | Jetseat FSE [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpenwolf Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Exactly my thoughts! With the Hip's DM I was starting to get worried about the Hind's DM. That'd be really frustrating so I don't even wanna think about it. Cold War 1947 - 1991 Discord Helicopters Tournaments Combined Arms Tournaments You can help me with keeping up the server via PayPal donations: hokumyounis@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorback Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 ED please watch Apache Warrior on Netflix (yes I noticed it was an Apache not a Hip) to see how resilient a heli is in general to small arms fire - I am getting a little tired with LDG Gear/Tailboom etc. falling off after a few rounds from an AK. Wanna fail engines/systems with an AK round through the engine/electrical bay - fine, but tail falling off - really? Also - for the love of all things Stalin, please make the Mi-24 a tank like it actually is in real life! I totally agree with you regarding the survivability of the next Mi-24. If not realistic (as for the Mi-8) I will for sure select the "immortal" option...:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted May 25, 2021 ED Team Share Posted May 25, 2021 On 5/19/2020 at 4:09 PM, VampireNZ said: ED please watch Apache Warrior on Netflix (yes I noticed it was an Apache not a Hip) to see how resilient a heli is in general to small arms fire - I am getting a little tired with LDG Gear/Tailboom etc. falling off after a few rounds from an AK. Wanna fail engines/systems with an AK round through the engine/electrical bay - fine, but tail falling off - really? Also - for the love of all things Stalin, please make the Mi-24 a tank like it actually is in real life! I did about 4 passes over 4 M4 infantry with no real damage, I took hits, they missed a bunch. But the tail didnt fall off and I was able to still fly normally. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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