Multi-crew for one huey implemented or not?

We know that u can aim the doorgun with the mouse while looking independently looking around with trackIR.

 

MY QUESTION IS:

Can you map the x and y axis of the doorgun to a joystick AND being able to control the doorgun with a joystick while independently looking around with Oculus Rift/htc vive.

I don't have any VR equipment, but I suspect the game "sees" VR the same way as trackIR (a device that controls some axis) so I would be surprised if it didn't worked.

But I admit I misunderstood the last post in the above thread as if he had successfully used VR+mouse independently, but it was OP with tIR, not very observant of me...

Does it necessarily have to be a joystick? A mouse for the gun isn't an option? Have you tried RShift+T?

I don't have any VR equipment, but I suspect the game "sees" VR the same way as trackIR (a device that controls some axis) so I would be surprised if it didn't worked.

 

But I admit I misunderstood the last post in the above thread as if he had successfully used VR+mouse independently, but it was OP with tIR, not very observant of me...

YES. it needs to be a joystick.

i plan to make a physical doorgun.

its simple. we can assign roll axis, pitch axis, throttle axis to the joystick.

I AM ASKING (please) Belsimtek to also allow the X-axis and Y-axis of the doorgun to be able to be mapped to a joystick or mouse or what ever, just PLEASE add the doorgun to the Axis assignments of the UH-1H

Then I understand your request.

While you wait for it to be implemented, you can use a software to port a joystick to mouse and make it work hopefully. Just do a search for "joy 2 mouse" or similar.

the gunners at least should be working. If copilot only that would leave alot of potential out of this bird.

Then I understand your request.

While you wait for it to be implemented, you can use a software to port a joystick to mouse and make it work hopefully. Just do a search for "joy 2 mouse" or similar.

i been through my days of trying to jerry rigging joysticks to work for games.

i got tired of using a mapping software to map the W key on the A10A because the A101A did not have brake axis assignments.

thanks for the suggestion of using mapping software. Looking for FULL in game support.

I DO NOT plan to build a physical doorgun using joystick hardware just to work around with a mapping software to bind to the mouse.

i still AM ASKING (WISH LIST) FOR BELSIMTEK TO ADD AXIS ASSIGMENTS (X & Y) for the DoorGun.

Please Please Belsimtek, Make the doorgunner multi seat slot great!

Holton.. to give you an idea.. this is what i am trying to achieve.

please! please belsimtek!

1) individual multiplayer slots for doorgunner positions (not just copilot)

2) independent axis commands for the door guns (that would be unrelated to view port)

the gunners at least should be working. If copilot only that would leave alot of potential out of this bird.

Agreed. Copilot is cool for trainer purposes. but in COMBAT (digital COMBAT simulator)

the gunner elements are more useful.

I feel that in VR, it will be an amazing feature to have doorgunners as a multiseat slot!!

In the latest Beta, in the mission editor under special options, you can now select control priority for the Huey like you can for other multi-crew aircraft. Good sign...?

As I'm sure you know. The Huey was made before multicrew, and last I heard the Huey would need to be remade from the ground up to allow for multiple players and switch logic. They would have to start to from scratch.

The real question is when they began the rework.

wishing that my door gunner controller project will see life in 2018, should belsimtek implement multi-seat and joystick support for the door gunners in both the UH1 and Mi8

Agreed. Copilot is cool for trainer purposes. but in COMBAT (digital COMBAT simulator)

the gunner elements are more useful.

 

I feel that in VR, it will be an amazing feature to have doorgunners as a multiseat slot!!

Low level flying, combined with territory only seen on maps, plus a little bad visibility can be challenging, when you need to sort your flight plan, stop watch, and worst case track the map.

Nice would be to have all slots in multi-crew, but I am sure the major "rework" is about the pilot controls and switches not so much the door gunners.

Yet it would tremendously help in a Huey to have a Navigator, even if he can't fly the Huey in a first implementation.

Nice would be to have all slots in multi-crew, but I am sure the major "rework" is about the pilot controls and switches not so much the door gunners.

I have a hard time believing it's that hard to allow for human door gunners. Plus I have to agree with the guys, door gunners are a major part in combat with the Huey.

Unfortunately, with our psychic AIs, you're a lot better off leaving the door gunners on auto than manning them yourself. Also, a real door gunner can feel the acceleration of the aircraft and compensate their aim accordingly (this happens without them even thinking about it) but in-game, any movement of the aircraft is only indicated by visual cues, so it makes tracking a target that much more difficult. As our Huey is pretty much always on "auto pilot" when we currently man the guns, we have a fairly stable platform to fire from. But you'd probably be very ineffective on a Huey that's currently being maneuvered.

Still, it would be fun to do this. I'm just not sure it would help rather than hinder game play. The point about extra eyes for navigation is an excellent one though.

This also brings up the question of, if the "auto-pilot" currently simulates the guy in the other seat, will having another player in there remove the auto-pilot functionality (as currently happens when the pilot or co-pilot are killed)? And what if that player disconnects? Will it revert to auto or will we have an essentially dead co-pilot? Hopefully the former, but I've come to not assume common sense will always be applied in these cases.

The ability to join/re-join while in-flight should be offered too. And if the player that spawned the plane disconnects, the joined player should take over ownership of the aircraft/mission (And score too? Not that the scoring system is really implemented well enough to currently take seriously.)

This is the problem with doing things piecemeal like this instead of having a clear, complete vision of what the product is supposed to be before starting development. You add one thing and it exposes all the weaknesses in other areas.

Anyway, whatever they add, I'll just be happy if it doesn't break anything that currently kind of works.

I have a hard time believing it's that hard to allow for human door gunners. Plus I have to agree with the guys, door gunners are a major part in combat with the Huey.

The gunners using seperate axis, may be depending on ED to change basic mouse and VR-view axis controls... That might mean, somewhere after 2.5 relelase.

But only BST and ED will know for sure.

At least with the pilot controls preference in the Mission Editor it seems they make progress, already.

The gunners using seperate axis, may be depending on ED to change basic mouse and VR-view axis controls... That might mean, somewhere after 2.5 relelase.

 

But only BST and ED will know for sure.

i just want to build a working minigun / doorgun controller working in VR. thats it. most games outthere can not support it- maybe arma, but arma's VR is non-existent. unfortunately iL2 controls are wanky for me to even consider using, let alone the poor VR gunner position support.

hopefully if were to build such controller, i would work on future DCS modules with gunner position...polychop Ju87???

i need a new construction project, and a doorgun control has been in my mind for the longest!

VR experience as a huey pilot is amazing as it is (with a collective cyclic and torque pedals), hoping that the gunner position receives the same treatment in which i can use a physical controller to use in VR!!!

i just want to build a working minigun / doorgun controller working in VR. thats it. most games outthere can not support it- maybe arma, but arma's VR is non-existent. unfortunately iL2 controls are wanky for me to even consider using, let alone the poor VR gunner position support.

hopefully if were to build such controller, i would work on future DCS modules with gunner position...polychop Ju87???

 

i need a new construction project, and a doorgun control has been in my mind for the longest!

 

VR experience as a huey pilot is amazing as it is (with a collective cyclic and torque pedals), hoping that the gunner position receives the same treatment in which i can use a physical controller to use in VR!!!

You'd really think it should work already by default. Without VR the door gunner aiming is controlled by the camera POV tilt/pan angle. It should be the same while in VR, it points where you look. Done.

I'm sure they found a way to make what's simple and obvious complex and close to impossible though. :/

You'd really think it should work already by default. Without VR the door gunner aiming is controlled by the camera POV tilt/pan angle. It should be the same while in VR, it points where you look. Done.

 

I'm sure they found a way to make what's simple and obvious complex and close to impossible though. :/

i have thought about it.

im sorry brother, my project requires the door gunner to have analogue x-axis and y-axis assignments because i plan to use pots for my controller in which the pots will map to the x & y axis.

i apprieciate that you dont tell me about the mouse just like someone posted earlier, i dont plan to spend time and hard work to build a controller just to map it to the game's already working mouse controls.

so, really, not done. not for the work i plan to put into the controller.

the problem with the mouse is that there will be drift. lets say you mapped the mouse to flight controls. you start flying along with the mouse already position at one point on your desk. one you start moving your mouse around, the mouse does not necessarily mean that it will result in the in game flight control to be centered to where you started using the mouse.

i have thought about it.

 

im sorry brother, my project requires the door gunner to have analogue x-axis and y-axis assignments because i plan to use pots for my controller in which the pots will map to the x & y axis.

 

i apprieciate that you dont tell me about the mouse just like someone posted earlier, i dont plan to spend time and hard work to build a controller just to map it to the game's already working mouse controls.

 

so, really, not done. not for the work i plan to put into the controller.

 

the problem with the mouse is that there will be drift. lets say you mapped the mouse to flight controls. you start flying along with the mouse already position at one point on your desk. one you start moving your mouse around, the mouse does not necessarily mean that it will result in the in game flight control to be centered to where you started using the mouse.

Yeah, I've got you, you have an absolute encoder instead of relative/continuous. Still, Track IR delivers an absolute position, right? (As does VR but you obviously don't want your head inside a box.) And the Track IR users can aim the miniguns with their heads, right? So the TrackIR interface might be your way into getting what you need to interface your pan/tilt pots into the game.

And yes, the problem with mouse is it's relative, you only know how much it's changed, but there's no way to know where you started from so it can't track to your gun controller's absolute angle.

I've been meaning to look at the Track IR interface myself as I want to make a utility to give me the keypad view system I used to enjoy in every flight simulator since Warbirds in the late '90s. (Then Aces High and WW2OL had the same.) Yes, there are user definable snap views in DCS, and you could change the key assignments to single keypad keys instead of virtually impossible to press combinations of keypad keys and modifier keys as they are by default -- but the problem is they don't combine. If I press, say, the 8 key for 12:00/forward and the 9 key for for 2:00 at the same time, I should look out at 1:00, half way between them. Same with pressing the 5 key. That should be straight up when pressed by itself, but up at 45 degrees when combined with any other direction, etc. The user snap-views only work with one direction at a time, you can't mix them together to get all the in-between angles.

If I ever do get around to that, it would be easy to take your pot pan and tilt encoders and translate them to Track IR input. Are you a coder? If so, maybe you'll beat me to it.

I dont plan to buy a track ir any time soon.

No. Hardware builder. Not coder

Translating for mouse or trackir, not interested to do either.

But thanks for suggestion

You wouldn't need a Track IR. What we'd do is make your pot encoders interface with DCS through the Track IR API.

Let me look into this some more. I might be able to help you. (Looks like I have to ask them for this, it doesn't appear to be openly available. https://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/developers/ EDIT: Request sent! We'll see how that goes...)

By the way, how were you planning to encode the pots as a joystick? Just wire them into an existing joystick?

You wouldn't need a Track IR. What we'd do is make your pot encoders interface with DCS through the Track IR API.

 

Let me look into this some more. I might be able to help you. (Looks like I have to ask them for this, it doesn't appear to be openly available. https://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/developers/ EDIT: Request sent! We'll see how that goes...)

 

By the way, how were you planning to encode the pots as a joystick? Just wire them into an existing joystick?

i super appreciate you offering to help.

im sure i could gerry rig something to work via the mouse.

but i dont want to gerry rig no mouse, let alone do deal with a trackIR or api.

thank you for msging natural point..

i had trackIR back then, i absolutely hated the device. i am surprsingly reluctant to use my oculus rift, because it i generally dont like to wear anything on my head, but oculus rift works, i fly only with that.

as mentioned before, if i were to make a physical doorgun, thats work and effort..which i am willing to do if there is in game built in analogue axis support. i dont want to build anything in which i have to deal with work arounds.

facepalm, they have an analogue axis assignment for open close canopy for the P-51D.. still wishing for analogue support for the UH1 and Mi8 doorgun controls

No, you're right that mouse control isn't the way to go. Even if you calibrate the gun angles when you first go to the gunner position, the first momentary freeze of the game while pan/tilting the gun and the angles will no longer match.

And this isn't really a work-around. TrackIR is how this game takes camera POV input. (I do agree there's no good reason for them to not offer joystick control of the guns and/or gunner POV, but I have a list a mile long of things in DCS that there's no good reason for. :) )

Still working on getting the SDK, let's take this offline to PM/email and I'll keep you posted.

(I do agree there's no good reason for them to not offer joystick control of the guns and/or gunner POV, but I have a list a mile long of things in DCS that there's no good reason for. :) )

unfortnately, i have to disagree.

Belsimtek SHOULD HAVE joystick support for guns.

for the DOORGUNS..

which is part of the multiseat position.

which is the point of this thread, having multi-crew for the huey.

which possiblity open doors for future modules for multi-crew type aircraft.

especially the AH-1 Cobra with the gunner co-pilot position.

it is GOOD reason.

have you played DCS in VR? at all?

That's what I said. There is no good reason to NOT offer joystick control of the guns. Meaning there's no good excuse for not doing it.

I'm guessing English is a second language for you?

And no, no VR. Can't afford it right now, much less the new GPU I'd need to support it, and I'm not interested in having to peek down my nose to find keys on the keyboard. Seems to kind of void the whole point to me.

That's what I said. There is no good reason to NOT offer joystick control of the guns. Meaning there's no good excuse for not doing it.

 

I'm guessing English is a second language for you?

 

And no, no VR. Can't afford it right now, much less the new GPU I'd need to support it, and I'm not interested in having to peek down my nose to find keys on the keyboard. Seems to kind of void the whole point to me.

sorry my brother, mis understood you last post, i read too many negations.

you should really try VR sometime.

it is a game changer..

find a moment to try it at least, if not buying it.

i wait for the day that the Huey will have multicrew support so that i can find more purpose in VR!

Yeah, no, I'm on your side and am trying to help.

And people who use TrackIR say they can't live without it as well but I've been doing just fine since 1987 without one. At least until I started flying DCS with its poorly implemented keyboard view system. (That also gets interrupted by radio messages! :( )

So how do you find the keyboard keys when using VR? That's the paradigm buster, to me. Now, if we had 3D gloves, and the pilot body's hands accurately tracked ours, and there was some kind of haptic feedback to tell you when your finger was over a switch and certain flick actions of your finger to activate/deactivate/turn the control, THEN I'd be interested. But I think that's still a long ways off. And even that has some big problems to solve. What if my real throttle isn't exactly where the virtual one is in 3-space? I'll appear to have a hand floating in the middle of my cockpit where it shouldn't be, getting in the way of my view of instruments and controls. Or perhaps a hand that appears to be going through a cockpit wall.

Until then I'll be spending my money on a bigger display. (I'd even consider a 3D one -- do they work with DCS? That plus TrackIR would probably appeal to me a lot more than goggles. I just don't think I'd like having my face buried in a hot mask, I get sweaty enough as it is in the summer. I imagine VR gear would be unbearable and completely fogged up.)