Two MS FFB2 with Cougar Grip

Dear fellow simmers,

whoever have bought recently also two MS-FFB2...(I count four)

I would love to see a flash-light of your progress!

:)

I'm just staring to make progress. Wiring is almost complete. Just have to rewrite the bottom motors of the sidewinder. I just reverse them, correct?

You have to reconnect everything on the lower FFB mechanism...

1.Motor X becomes Y and vice versa.

2. You have also to swap the polarity of the lower motors. - swap the cabels on each motor - so it will turn in the other direction now.

4.Potentiometer X becomes Y and vice versa.

3. and you have to swap the polarity of both lower potentiometers.

Leave the ground-bus unattached but swap the other two cables of each poti - so a negative readout will be a positive value.

It's like mirroring everything on the lower FFB.:smilewink:

Mirror everything. I can do that. I'll give an update later this week. Still lots to do on my end before its complete.

I took a look at the motors and discovered a snag. The one motor cables are red and black. The other is white and yellow. Swaping them isn't an issue. But witch color should I treat as positive?

*Disclaimer: I'm not responsible for any damage you do!!! Don't copy everything blindly!! Make your own thoughts if everything makes sense what I have wrote and double-check everything !!*

This image I made is based on my memory:

like I said- "swap'n'mirror":

You should be able to reconnect them on-the-fly (while the USB is connected) to check what you have done - but make sure you removed the power before you do this!!! Than plug the power back in to do a test.

Extend the cables - so you can do this without pulling them all the time!

This shows my test- environment:

So- you can see that I had easy access to the cables all the time, and could reconnect cables if needed.- and I could test everything on-the -fly with the FFB-Test program.

If you provide me with clear photos of the connectors from the lower potentiometers (I don't feel like dismantle mine for you..;)) I can do a similar wiring drawing like above .

Thanks for the picture. Helps the most. Instead is resolder or splicing wires, I'm just pulling the wires out of the plug and changing it that way.

Make another picture for you POTs and ill put you to hero status. I swaped them and the joystick is centering to the bottom left now.

Superb Job.... something i would want to do, have the stuff but not the knowledge.... bravo.......

This is a answer for a member that had a question via PM:

Hi, I made the hole of the Black plastic-tube of the FFB a little bigger with a sharp drill (from 9mm to 10mm) so I could fit in my 10mm aluminium-tube extension over the whole length of it. Now it is sturdy as hell.

I got a pm:

Hi, I'm thinking of doing a similar project myself. What are the dimensions of the motor assembly for both ffb2 put together? How many of the motor mount kits do you need?

You need four of them - so you have one for each motor.

And total dimension of the joint FFB mechanics are:

(sorry - I only speak metric... I don't have a clue how to tell it to you in Inch/Feet/elbows/spoons or cups :D)

When DCS sends a FFB command it will executed by every FFB controller you add.

I found it out by moving my MS-FFB2 and saw that the Logitech FBB-steering wheel turned also in the x-axis the same as the joystick...

Hi Peter,

I already bought two MS-FFB2 and started to replicate your great idea.:thumbup:

One thing puzzled me: In DCS World both controllers produce force feedback simultaneusly. I other games like rfactor only the active controller produces force feedback and not both. So I suppose it´s special feature of DCS to work all FFB controllers simultaneously.

What will we do if in future ED doesn´t provide this "simultaneous FFB" feature anymore? Is there any other possibility to get both MS-FFB2 produce FFB simultaneously?:unsure: I think "CyBerkut" also mentioned this somewhere in this forum.

Takeoff-for-fun (WB)

What will we do if in future ED doesn´t provide this "simultaneous FFB" feature anymore? Is there any other possibility to get both MS-FFB2 produce FFB simultaneously?:unsure: I think "CyBerkut" also mentioned this somewhere in this forum.

Then you have to make your own drivers.

I'm pretty sure DirectX is controlling the ffb. As long as you use correct drivers from Microsoft, dcs world should continue to function with duel FFB.

Both FFbs work for other games that I tried. (Shake function only tested)

Hi Peter,

 

(...)

 

What will we do if in future ED doesn´t provide this "simultaneous FFB" feature anymore? Is there any other possibility to get both MS-FFB2 produce FFB simultaneously?:unsure: I think "CyBerkut" also mentioned this somewhere in this forum.

 

Takeoff-for-fun (WB)

I hope that it won't happen soon...

But if after a update (see my sig ) the FFB won't work any more like I (we) need it for simultaneous use of two MSFFB2 ,

I will pull out my dusty book about electronic fundamentals ,

have a long read to refresh my knowledge,

and than I will take a deep breath and do this :

MS Sidewinder FF2 hacking

So I boost the stick's motor current output and can hook up stronger motors and use only one MSFFB2.

I believe what I mentioned was what TriggerHappy had discovered... that using FFB for both Cyclic and Rudder trim simultaneously was not supported / workable.

That is a rather different matter than what PeterP's excellent implementation of a stronger Cyclic (via back-to-back MSFFB motor assemblies) involves.

Instead for re-soldering the board to use stronger motors, you could plug the motor leads from the one of the controller boards, into an Arduino board and use a motor shield to control all the motors.

The Arduino would read the value for the motors and then pass them through to the motor shield which would be able to drive the motors with enough power to keep them at the same strength as if using two controllers. I don't know enough about electronics or Arduinos to know if it would work but may be worth checking into.

Has anybody thought about doing this with the TM Warthog?

I've only just found this thread tonight after finding a bargain MS FFB2 stick on ebay.

I have a spare Warthog handle/circuit boards so will be looking to do this mod, the only issue I can see is the weight of the Warthog grip and the effect it has on the force feedback motors. I'll have to find a decent method of connecting the WH grip to the FFB2 shaft as all mini-din connector is obviously presented at the bottom - will probably look at the garden hose route although I do have one of Metal n Woods extenders which may make it easier but would probably have an even worse effect on the ffb motors.

I'm definitely interested to see if anyone else has attempted it with a Warthog grip though.....I think that grip together with the MS FFB2 base (and the Warthog Throttle) is the perfect combination for any flight sim.

The beauty of using a Warthog grip is that the thing doesn't have to be taken apart - worst case means I will have to rip my x52 pro stick apart and use that as it will be much lighter.

Well, like you can see PeterP is using a Cougar grip, the Warthog grip is not really heavier that the Cougar's i'd weight them both, but my cougar is boxed looking for a buyer, but I garantee that if there's a weight diference it is marginal. PeterP has reported that the grip is indeed a bit too heavy for the MSFF2, that's why he "doubled" the mechanism, the "two set of motors" thing plus counter weight and all.

Thanks, I am realistically looking at only 1 x FFB2 to do my mod, so as you (and PeterP) suggest, it's probably on the heavy side to pull this off.

It was the non-doctoring of the grip that appeals but it looks like doing the mod with an X52 pro grip will be more successful.

I used to have a centre-mount stick which I created for the Warthog Hotas but have since gone back to a desk mounted stick as I haven't got as much time these days as I used to have and desk mounted means I can whip it out and get everything ready much quicker (and it keeps the wife a little happier!) . I think the X52 mod, and possibly mounting the 3 x toggle buttons on the FFB2 base is the way I'll go with this.

Well you can try my backup plan. Wich is to procure an old FLCS and use that grip. I have since beguining to thinker with the FLCS grip found out that internally electronicaly is very identical to the cougar grip a few wires have to swaped around to maintain cougar like functionality and to make the TG1 and TG1 functional but it's quite easy to do. Then you can take the 5 wire flat cable that conects to the base and adapt it into a PS2 male connector and it's ready to connect to your cougar or WT base to interface through eighter of them. It's danm near perfect, except of course for the guiving up the excelent built and looks of the WT grip, also the buttons on the FLCS have a crappy feel, so one may want to replace those with better quality/looking ones, the hats aren't that great eighter but can be made to feel better with some modding. And some aditional modding will be required to get the DMS push down funciton to work, for flying the A-10 you can allways opt out of that and use the paddle as a replacement since the A-10C doesn't have the Paddle switch.

Hi Peter,

Thanks for this thread!

I have taken 1 msffb2 apart and I am not 100% sure how to rewire the potentiometers.

Can you tell from the pics below which wires need to be swapped and which are the ground wires?

One other question on placing the motor mounts.

Did you cut part of the middle so you could place it over the motor and past the axis of the motor, or did you take the gear off and then place the mount?

If you removed the gear, could you please explain how you did remove it?

thanks,

camel

^ Anyone?

The potentiometers of the lower MSFFB2 must work in the opposite direction as the above.

Have a read : http://www.mattkrass.com/?page_id=1031

and have a look:

Now you have learned that you have to swap the two connectors at the sides to reverse the output of the potentiometer.

Removing the gear:

The gears are pressed on the axis of the motor- I pulled them off with a small pilers that I closed behind the Gear.

Here is a example picture how I did it:

Imagine that the screwdriver is the Motor with its axis and the Nut is the Gear.

Thank you :thumbup: