F-14 low speed prowess vs Other Aircraft - Page 49 - ED Forums
 


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Old 04-20-2018, 01:37 AM   #481
turkeydriver
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You left the wings in Auto, period, for air combat. The rest is artificial BS in a training environment. IF some nimrod hit the pass with the wings swept fulyl aft, you could easily tell by the closure rate and attitude as he went by (usually this was attempted when someone was too low on fuel to use AB for the last engagement).

We used to hear F15 drivers talk about how they could tell our energy state from our sweep value, then I'd ask "so what is the wing sweep schedule"? Not one had a clue. OK, "What is the wing sweep value that would preclude a vertical killing move?" Uh, well, um, not really sure there sir...

The problem is that the Tomcat could do a loop from a very low energy state, down to 180 KIAS for the B/D, where the wings would be fully forward. Up to .82 Mach or so, the wings moved very little, a flat curve that didn't say much about velocity. From .8 to .9, they'd sweep fully aft. Anywhere in that regime, there was plenty of energy to extend and leave.

So the whole wing sweep issue is a lot of fighter pilot at the bar bullshit.

Same crap you still hear about the AIM54C. I still have F15 guys try to tell me what the missile could and could not do.
WORD.

-disclaimer to all here and I'm sure you all know from clicking on my profile- I am not an actual turkeydriver- its just my handle from Delphi forum days.
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Old 04-21-2018, 03:45 PM   #482
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Is the only factor lift? Are other attributes considered? Most importantly, how would you employ the Tomcat vs how should you employ the Tomcat?
This is exactly why i made the post in the first place. I.E. if you enter your first break at 450 KIAS you may end up in entirely different pickle then you would by entering at 500 KIAS. Pulling 10g may not always be the best idea. I'm trying to figure out the best merge geometry here.
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Old 04-21-2018, 04:31 PM   #483
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Untargeted entry behind 3-9 line.

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I'm trying to figure out the best merge geometry here.
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Old 04-22-2018, 03:01 AM   #484
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Untargeted entry behind 3-9 line.
LOL, all right.....second best then!
And don't tell me it's from bellow.....
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Old 04-22-2018, 08:16 PM   #485
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This is exactly why i made the post in the first place. I.E. if you enter your first break at 450 KIAS you may end up in entirely different pickle then you would by entering at 500 KIAS. Pulling 10g may not always be the best idea. I'm trying to figure out the best merge geometry here.
Pulling 10g in any jet is a bad idea and useful only as a last ditch break to dodge a missile shot. Even in an F-16, I wouldn't practice pulling more than 7g sustained as there isn't any real point.
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Old 04-22-2018, 10:21 PM   #486
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Pulling 10g in any jet is a bad idea and useful only as a last ditch break to dodge a missile shot. Even in an F-16, I wouldn't practice pulling more than 7g sustained as there isn't any real point.
Have just finished watching the 5 part Belgian TV docu/series F-16 and they regularly take the F-16s up to 9g+ especially after routine maintenance.

One pilot has had to retire from flying the F-16 as his body can no longer take the strain and pain from pulling high g manoeuvres, he was only 42, now he flies as first officer/co pilot on an AWACS, while he spoke about it and seen his last flight on episode 2 it was only on episode 5 that we got a bit more information, he has a large slow beating heart and under g-force it was moving down against his diaphragm and causing problems, he was also commenting on the fact that it was better to have a smaller faster beating heart to keep the pressure up to help fend off g-loc.

It was one recurring comment on flying the F-16 was the pain it put the body through pulling high g, there was always a physio on hand to help work out the knots in the muscles from sustained g-manoeuvres.
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Old 04-22-2018, 10:32 PM   #487
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Many fighter pilots get the G-damage and have to retire because of what happens to their body. The F-16 is designed as a 9G sustained jet- so that has to be tested during a functional test to prove nothing breaks at that g- it has nothing to do with actual usefulness during a dogfight. The F-14 has an interceptor mission so its acceleration to Mach 1.6?(might be 1.4) is tested after heavy maintenance or engine replacements to ensure it can achieve that speed- it doesn't mean F-14s routinely attain Mach 1.6 flying peacetime or wartime missions. I'm sure most F-14 drivers will tell you the fastest they flew was during a post- engine maintenance FCF. A few guys hung it out up high and have hit the magical 2.5, but they don't go bragging about it to their CO or maintenance officer LOL.
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:14 AM   #488
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Perhaps the Belgians do it differently, but there is a thing called over g. Going to 10gees in any airframe constitutes an over g inspection. There is a high chance that something important could or did break. The over g rate is counted in video frames from the HUD cam. How many frames the jet stayed over the g limit is what determines which inspection is performed. This is always reported and a severe over g can down an aircraft for a while. This disturbs the phase inspection cycle and flying hours that the jet needs to fly to stay on schedule. Pilots are NOT congratulated for this. Disrupting the maintenance flow for an ego maneuver might seem fun, but later when pilots can't get qual'd because someone hard broke a jet there is a different tune. Mistakes happen, especially during BFM or against Red Air, but this isn't something a pilot does haphazardly. Not saying it's never happened mind you, just painting the full picture.
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:41 AM   #489
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Perhaps the Belgians do it differently, but there is a thing called over g. Going to 10gees in any airframe constitutes an over g inspection. There is a high chance that something important could or did break. The over g rate is counted in video frames from the HUD cam. How many frames the jet stayed over the g limit is what determines which inspection is performed. This is always reported and a severe over g can down an aircraft for a while. This disturbs the phase inspection cycle and flying hours that the jet needs to fly to stay on schedule. Pilots are NOT congratulated for this. Disrupting the maintenance flow for an ego maneuver might seem fun, but later when pilots can't get qual'd because someone hard broke a jet there is a different tune. Mistakes happen, especially during BFM or against Red Air, but this isn't something a pilot does haphazardly. Not saying it's never happened mind you, just painting the full picture.
The HUD was showing 9.1g for a few seconds during the test flight, the pilot was the one that does the solo displays at the airshows etc. He sought and got permission from ATC before doing each manoeuvre whether the 9g test or going supersonic.

The young student pilot doing his first set of BFM in the F-16 looked really wrung out when he came back to the base.

Mind you, watching the show taxed my understanding of the Flemish language as I'm not a native speaker

The show was filmed just a few km from me, I live under the flight path from KB airbase, it was also filmed in Jordan and Estonia with the flights that are deployed there.
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Old 04-24-2018, 09:02 PM   #490
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Pulling 10g in any jet is a bad idea and useful only as a last ditch break to dodge a missile shot. Even in an F-16, I wouldn't practice pulling more than 7g sustained as there isn't any real point.
It's not something you'd do very often (hopefully), and yet at times you might need to. Or be goaded to. And if at the moment of being forced into one you are doing 500 knots......
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