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Old 07-31-2020, 06:47 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by GGTharos View Post
What I doubt is its actual use IRL anywhere. The Su-27 and MiG-29 that we have in the game don't indicate any use modes for these missiles in their manuals for example, and using such missiles for air to air is very obviously (by historical use of weapons) not preferred.
That ain't evidence that R-27P doesn't exist, even in warehouse ready to go when situation calls.

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Looking at the diagram itself, the missile can be used only on the same pylons as the R-27T/ET, which brings into question it's shooting interface ... if it's basically a boresight like the AGM-122 using the heat-seeker interface, then it's not a surprise that it isn't in real use. It's a waste of a missile pylon against anything but opportunistic easy shots at sparse GBAD.
Irrelevant. It is not evidence that R-27P doesn't exist, even in warehouse ready to go when situation calls.

If your 99.9% of missions are without R-27P, then it doesn't mean you do not have 0.01% missions where you would use R-27P.

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If he was sharing secret information he'd be in jail, so that's not what's happening. That 'some guy' from ED has more data on the missiles than maybe you realize - sources and software that we won't get our hands on.
So ED doesn't have any sources that anyone can validate by any means.
Otherwise it would be required ED to reveal their sources so that others can validate it.

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You are more versed in Russian sources and they may well be better sources than what I can access, but here's the thing: We have things on the west as well that people want and those things have been tested even, but never actually used. The AGM-65 on Apache was one such real example.
That is not evidence for anything else than AGM-65 on Apache case.
If something is tested, found operating (ie, missile is possible be launched and hits targets positively, instead negatively where they could get it launched but it didn't track anything and just went ballistics) then it should be considered to be implemented in DCS World, because politics and other doctrinal, economical, logistics etc restrictions doesn't matter in simulation, but only in mission designer own hypothetical scenarios.

But this thread is already heavily off-topic about the R-77 performance and capabilities compared to R-27...
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Old 07-31-2020, 06:55 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Flаnker View Post
The Su-33 can use this missile. It is mainly used to destroy AWACS aircraft and jammers.
I have come to understanding that R-27P/EP was designed to be used against fighters, not against AWACS (that are far behind the enemy fighter cover to R-27E even ever reaching one) that are targeted with other kind missiles.

The R-27P seeker is told to operate in centimeter band, and if example E-3 works at 10 cm band, it is called already decimeter class.

Considering a situation where enemy is jamming you with same frequency as your radar and anyways emitting with the same band, you can effectively get them think a new kind tactics and counter measurements as they don't know is the missile IR or passive radar homing, without launch warning.

So usage like a R-27T/ET against fighters is more sensible than even going after AWACS.
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Old 08-01-2020, 09:54 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by GGTharos View Post
What I doubt is its actual use IRL anywhere. The Su-27 and MiG-29 that we have in the game don't indicate any use modes for these missiles in their manuals for example, and using such missiles for air to air is very obviously (by historical use of weapons) not preferred.
Wrong, the missile is part of some manuals.

For example it can be used in Phi-0 boresight mode. It is recommended to turn the own radar off to give the missile a clearer picture. It will then behave like a heater fired form Phi-0, it will get a launch authorisation when it finds a radar source.
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Old 08-01-2020, 10:21 AM   #44
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https://www.ktrv.ru/production/voenn...-_r-27ep1.html
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Old 08-01-2020, 04:01 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by GGTharos View Post

It's a ceramic radome, the color doesn't make a difference. It may simply be un-painted as they do trials on various things. The metal section is also simply painted on the R-27R and probably has the same RF windows.
Actually I think it does make a difference GGtharos . In the photo of the Su-34 that Flanker posted, the homing head on the R-27 does indeed look just like the 9B-1032 passive radar seeker as it has been displayed on various ocassions.

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Now, the R-27 is a large missile and I certainly don't doubt that you can put a passive sensor on it and use it as an anti-radiation missile.
The existence of the missile itself is not in doubt - the doubt was to what extend it is operational....or rather whether the Russian airforce acquired it.

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What I doubt is its actual use IRL anywhere.
Yes.

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The Su-27 and MiG-29 that we have in the game don't indicate any use modes for these missiles in their manuals for example, and using such missiles for air to air is very obviously (by historical use of weapons) not preferred.
There are some vague mention here and there, but only in a rather "primitive" way and even then there needs to be an targeting logic/interface to facilitate its proper use.

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Looking at the diagram itself, the missile can be used only on the same pylons as the R-27T/ET, which brings into question it's shooting interface ... if it's basically a boresight like the AGM-122 using the heat-seeker interface, then it's not a surprise that it isn't in real use. It's a waste of a missile pylon against anything but opportunistic easy shots at sparse GBAD.
Yes what I have seen seems to indicate something like that, but then things have progressed since the baseline Su-27 - with the integration of the L-150 on e.g. the Su-33 and Su-27SM, its much more likely that the weapon could be used effectively since this(the L-150) has built-in interface for controlling ARMs(such as the Kh-31P) in several different modes of operation.....so I don't really see any reason why it couldn't be used for controlling an R-27P/EP as well.

What I am trying to say is that I don't think this variant of the R-27 was in the arsenal of the Soviet/Russian airforce previously although it has been advertised for some time by its manufacturers, but that thisi may have changed recently in connection with upgrades/new versions of the Flanker. As with the R-77, there isn't much sense in acquiring a weapon if its incompatible(or its application severely restricted) with the aircraft at hand.
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Old 08-01-2020, 04:18 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by BBCRF View Post
Krtv is an "umbrella" organisation for manufacturers and they just list what is on offer - the weapons aren't always fully developed or/and operational with any military force yet.
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