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Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods


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To be clear the ALPS 5 way WON'T work with just that circuit board there. You need another shift register to get "CMS" and "DMS" Hats. (The CMS is the Thumb 5 way on the Warthog) Problem is It has to be wired in "Upstream of the other two Shift registers though.

 

The alternative is to use a normal 3 shift register board and fabricobble mounts for the switches and such or "repurpose" the original board in the stick and hope everything fits. Buy at least two pairs of JB Weld tubes.

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ALPS SLLB or SLLB5 are up-down switch with option for center push.

 

With an SKQUCAA010 (4 + push) can wire only 3 positions.

 

The downside of this switch's is their small size.

 

Or with 2 ordinary 6x6mm tactile micro-switch and epoxy putty you can add 2 buttons in the actual press button used by Suncom chanelling a bit the center hole for pole, to allow press the new 2 buttons.


Edited by Sokol1_br
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  • 3 months later...

Hi Debolestis,

 

 

A quick question about the pcb for the f15 grip.

 

 

Can the PCB output all button switch strokes as individual signals?

 

I want to transplant a Suncom stick to my thrustmaster t16000 and connect the switches directly to the t1600 switches.

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

Tom

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T.16000M don't use Shift Register, then this PCB for F-15 is not suitable.

 

And PCB is not needed, you just need wire Suncom buttons/HAT's direct to T.16000M controller, if don't plan add new functions (e.g. dual trigger) you need 8/9 buttons and POV HAT, T.16000M have 16 + POV HAT.

 

Original Suncom wiring is confusing, what I do is remove all wires and cut PCB trails, the fit new wires direct in buttons switches pins.


Edited by Sokol1_br
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  • 1 month later...

The way you mounted the switches is genius!

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  • 3 months later...

Hey deboelitis...

 

I'm curious if you could be convinced to rework this main board to use the ALPS switches natively without the additional board? Here's why I ask...

 

The F-15C, F-18C and AV-8 B stick each have the same basic setup as far as the Trim and Castle switch...The F-15/ F-18 Trim and Castle switches in the same spots, the Harrier trim and castle switches are reversed.

 

On the F-15 the "Trim switch" is a 4 way switch with center depress that activates countermeasures Program 1 . The Castle switch is 4 way switch with No center push function

 

On the F-18 the castle switch has the depress function...trim doesn't not / may not.

 

AV-8B the, trim and castle switch positions are reversed...castle has the depress function.

 

By adding the alps switches with Z-axis to the board you could make it possible for someone to correctly map the functions for 3 aircraft on one suncom stick.

 

244323e52c432c1def27c7845a21a478.png

Edited by Sierra99

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If you're putting in the ALPS units you'll need to cut into the face under the 4 ways anyways. I just used their ALPS adapter boards along with their ALPS enclosures. For the buttons I just drilled the holes bigger and put proper OTTO push buttons in which feel amazing. The only weird bit is the trigger, unless you want to spend over $100 on the actual OTTO dual stage trigger assembly you have to re-use the bit of the original board that the trigger's tactile switch is mounted on.

 

I'm still working on how to fit all 3 shift registers in there though. The bit of board with the trigger switch is right in the way of everything.

 

dhKW5H5.jpg?1


Edited by RustBelt
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I was working on new version but it is tricky, because a third shift register chip is needed for all of the buttons and dual stage trigger. It can be done if I use even smaller SMD components and SMD switches and if I make PCB a bit bigger. I want to use only a few different components, one type of resistor, switch, chip, capacitor etc. I plan to order pcbs fully assembled and that will raise the price, but I really have no time to solder pcbs by hand.

 

Alps switch is very small and must be raised a little because otherwise it will have to large throw. To raise it another PCB is necessary.

 

Is there service for cables as there is for PCBs? I would like to order cables with 5 pin mini din on one side and PCB connector on another.

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I was working on new version but it is tricky, because a third shift register chip is needed for all of the buttons and dual stage trigger. It can be done if I use even smaller SMD components and SMD switches and if I make PCB a bit bigger. I want to use only a few different components, one type of resistor, switch, chip, capacitor etc. I plan to order pcbs fully assembled and that will raise the price, but I really have no time to solder pcbs by hand.

 

Alps switch is very small and must be raised a little because otherwise it will have to large throw. To raise it another PCB is necessary.

 

Is there service for cables as there is for PCBs? I would like to order cables with 5 pin mini din on one side and PCB connector on another.

 

Last Cables I got were from eBay...but they were inexpensive and came with PCB connectors as well.

 

Glad to hear your working this...any chance of adding the ACQ switch too?

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If third chip is added then 24 switches can be connected in theory. Warthog sees only 22. But that will be more than enough for F15. Problem with this grip is that it must be modified to fit everything inside. You can use also Alps switch for ACQ, and new pcb is needed for that also.

 

 

There is a second option. I work on SFS box that will be sort of extension for Suncom grip. There will be paddle switch as well. Inside of the box there will be more than enough room for electronics and then more space inside the grip for switches. That is maybe the best sollution if extension is not a problem.

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If third chip is added then 24 switches can be connected in theory. Warthog sees only 22. But that will be more than enough for F15. Problem with this grip is that it must be modified to fit everything inside. You can use also Alps switch for ACQ, and new pcb is needed for that also.

 

 

There is a second option. I work on SFS box that will be sort of extension for Suncom grip. There will be paddle switch as well. Inside of the box there will be more than enough room for electronics and then more space inside the grip for switches. That is maybe the best sollution if extension is not a problem.

 

If your talking about the SFS Box you designed for me, I am still working on getting accurate measurements of the box...that project fell off the radar but if it's moved back to the top I'll press ahead for the actual box dimensions. I'll send ya a pm with some observations.


Edited by Sierra99

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If third chip is added then 24 switches can be connected in theory. Warthog sees only 22. But that will be more than enough for F15. Problem with this grip is that it must be modified to fit everything inside. You can use also Alps switch for ACQ, and new pcb is needed for that also.

 

 

There is a second option. I work on SFS box that will be sort of extension for Suncom grip. There will be paddle switch as well. Inside of the box there will be more than enough room for electronics and then more space inside the grip for switches. That is maybe the best sollution if extension is not a problem.

 

debolites,

 

I am in contact with the Gent rebuilding an F-15C cockpit. He’s is going to forward dimensional information about the SFS box so we can make a correctly scaled copy of we wish. I’ll let ya know what I have it in hand.

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Thank you for your help. Somebody else contacted me for SFS box, as close to original as possible. I have a few drawings, I need make a few modifications and add paddle lever. I plan to use Otto P1 switch, and lever will actuate it somehow.

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Thanks!

 

 

Based on the photos I have, it appears to pull on a shaft that actuates a switch. I created the model above yesterday, based on a DXF file I sent to Sierra99. :) When I get time, I'll pull apart one of my Suncom sticks so I can model the mounting post in order to add that to the assembly. I'm also using 8-32 heat set inserts to hold the box cover on. The cover is .125" aluminum as it'll give the frame a lot more rigidity and should help prevent stress failures over time.

 

 

g.

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*coughs*

 

7Zs0Rxx.jpg

:D

 

 

g.

 

Well crap...it would have been nice to know you were on here Gene!

 

:doh:

 

Would have saved some time! :music_whistling:

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Hehe. I'm like a bad penny - I turn up everywhere. ;)

 

 

When I can find time to tear down my suncom stick and model the mounting post, I'll get that added to the model. I also need to chase down a snap-action microswitch for the NWS paddle.

 

 

g.

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http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of her kind.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Gene,

 

debolestis already has the suncom mounting post modeled...

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/K7TSHRB22/sfs-box-for-suncom-f15-stick?optionId=63047985&li=marketplace

 

Can’t he just transfer the post to your version?

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Hi,

may I ask few questions and for few advices? Just to explain - I am new in this field, now slowly gathering information and trying to figure out what to do what not to do and so on. I have little skills in soldering, PCBs and so on but I have someone pretty skilled, thus it should be doable. So my questions etc.:

 

- I am already lost in ~60 pages, thus can someone point me (if possible) to rewiring F-15 to be Warthog/Cougar compatible? There were quite a lot of diagrams, PCBs and I am unable to pick up the right stuff

Note: I have an old F-15 joystick (gameport) and I am thinking of buying Virpil base and instead of buying their grip, make my own as the base should be compatible.

 

About those advices and other options as I have seen you here doing quite a lot of stuff: What would you find to be a better start?

- above mentioned job

- use the F-15 grip for MS Sidewinder 2 (I have it) eventually with buttons/hats wired to another PCB system like MJoy/MMJoy

- get some 3D printer, make my own gimbal and some of those electrical parts as MMJoy?

 

The last option could be useful also to make some simple cockpit with some universal boards, maybe throttle as well, but that would be another field to learn.

 

I do not have budget now for everything so I am putting together pros and cons. And as I have said, I do not hurry, but I would like in some time to start somewhere.

I am flying mostly WW2 era planes, in DCS I am familiarizing myself with Mirage 2000, although I have also Mig-21, A-10C, Su-25T in mind

 

 

P.S. I have old MJoy PCBs and electronic components and hall sensors ready to put togther I just do not know if it is not too outdated for the major controller.

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1st - in original form Suncom F-15 is 8 buttons plus POV HAT grip (the small button is just a selector between keyboard emulation and 2 button stick).

 

Hence you need change internals connections/PCB(optional)for use in other stick base.

 

By install a 2 chip shifter register you can use up to 16 buttons (including HAT) and with Debolestis neck and nut have a gip compatible with warthog/cougar and VirPil bases.

 

Five way Alps switches, OTTO buttons...

Is users individual options... In prol of "feel simulator". :)

 

For install in MS FFB2 dont need do much modifications if keep 8 buttons + POV HAT. Just place wires for base buttons to castle HAT.


Edited by Sokol1_br
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  • 2 weeks later...
1st - in original form Suncom F-15 is 8 buttons plus POV HAT grip (the small button is just a selector between keyboard emulation and 2 button stick).

 

Hence you need change internals connections/PCB(optional)for use in other stick base.

 

By install a 2 chip shifter register you can use up to 16 buttons (including HAT) and with Debolestis neck and nut have a gip compatible with warthog/cougar and VirPil bases.

 

Five way Alps switches, OTTO buttons...

Is users individual options... In prol of "feel simulator". :)

 

For install in MS FFB2 dont need do much modifications if keep 8 buttons + POV HAT. Just place wires for base buttons to castle HAT.

Thanks for the answer. I have Talon version that has 4 "hat" switches (but they are 4-way position, not 8-way as normal HAT plus 4 buttons.

 

 

What I am looking for is, whether there is some PCB schematics how to wire and solder the switches so they would be compatible with Warthog base.

I think that some it this thread are the ones I am looking for, just I cannot identify them for sure.

 

 

Or if there is complete schematic for Warthog as is, so I could i.e. use that selector switch as additional button and convert thumb switch into HAT switch as Warthog itself has more buttons/HATs than old Suncom joysticks.

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