How to Takeoff in the Dora

Taking Off the Dora is easier that everybody is saying...despite the fact that the "prop-wash" is not modelled.

..........

This phrase implies that DCS knows that the Dora has no "prop-wash effect" and therefore has no rudder control until the aircraft reaches certain speed.

I honestly don't know where to start, which is probably a first for me on these forums.

In any event, waiting on you to explain exactly what's happening in this vid. I am the original 'armchair-pilot' with admittedly zero knowledge of real-life aviation as it pertains to hands-on experience so please, waiting on you to provide enlightenment:

8wvyfSIWeIA

Why do I enjoy this Merry-Go-Round so much? What causes the craft to induce in me such a bout of gut-wrenching giggles?

despite the fact that the "prop-wash" is not modeled.

So… take off with neutral stick in pitch is supposed to be impossible? OK

While I usually do the takeoff “three-point” like it was done IRL, for the sake of demonstration here is a track where I do the takeoff with stick COMPLETELY PUSHED until the speed in outside view is about 140Km/h. I advance the throttle completely right from the beginning and I don’t use any differential wheel braking at all to keep the plane straight. Really no need to use brakes. Watch how aggressive I work the rudder.

This was done with a X52pro with stick twist for rudder control, no rudder pedals here. With rudder pedals this becomes a piece of cake. Really.

As 159th_Viper already said – nothing is impossible.

stick push.trk

Taking Off the Dora is easier that everybody is saying...despite the fact that the "prop-wash" is not modeled.

My trick is to trim the elevator to the full nose-down position, ..it is only one degree or a degree and a half, the maximum allowed.

Then

- Center the tail wheel and lock it, with stick to your bellybutton,,

- Loose brakes,

- Half Throttle

- Run the half of the runway until the plane reaches about 100KM / h, and you get rudder control,

- Center the stick and throttle to 100% and fly it.

- And the aircraft go to airborne safely, and with full control.

- Do not forget to correct the trim to neutral position after takeoff.

 

In addition;

DCS Fw 190 D-9 Dora Flight Manual, page 91.

"The best takeoff procedure is to hold the tail down until sufficient speed for rudder control is attained and then to allow the tail to rise slowly"

This phrase implies that DCS knows that the Dora has no "prop-wash effect" and therefore has no rudder control until the aircraft reaches certain speed.

I put $50 you get a red plus sign soon, your obsession with the prop wash thing (and the fact it is modeled yet you continue trolling about it) is over the line.

 

As 159th_Viper already said – nothing is impossible.

Except explaining stuff to some people. You couldn't make this stuff up. Very entertaining!!!

Is perfectly possible take off without use brakes for nothing, without tail lock, without flaps, with instant full power and stick centered.

Only begin with 50% rudder right and dancing rudder then. Prop-wash IS modelled.

All I said is own experience.

I think you will not win... the more somebody tries to state that the Earth is flat, the more evidences people will provide that it is not flat.

Let him write... his reference to the DCS manual as a proof that we know we have no propwash... it made my morning.

You are absolutely right about the Earth argument however proving that requires alot of work.

This guy is arguing with YOU, the developer who CODED this amazing flight model (and amazing bird in general), after you said it's there, it should of been stopped..

Sometimes I just don't get it, but while we're on it, Thank you so much for this amazing module and all the hard work you are putting into bringing us the most realistic flight experience on the PC.

Now we need to let Yo-Yo focus on the Me-109. :) Can't wait for that one, either.

Let me troll a little....

You are allowed one free troll a month :)

Let me troll a little... just found that even 16 knots x-wind is good for takeoffs and landings. But it requires to be concentrated.

 

By the way, I have a bug in the current version - rudder pedal axis disappears from the axes map time to time though brakes keep working. Did not check it once and took off using only brakes and thinking that rudder is unusually useless.

You are trolling on a rather high level, Yo-Yo. :)

With full throttle the Dora noses over - way before 3000 rpm with the stick neutral and at about 3000 rpm with stick fully aft.

Yes, I should have been clearer. As the others have said, put the throttle to full and come off the brakes while the RPM is climbing.

You can wait a little bit and come off the brakes just as it starts to nose over if you like, just don't wait too long.

You certainly shouldn't wait until the engine RPM has matched the throttle otherwise you end up kissing the runway.

So… take off with neutral stick in pitch is supposed to be impossible? OK

 

While I usually do the takeoff “three-point” like it was done IRL, for the sake of demonstration here is a track where I do the takeoff with stick COMPLETELY PUSHED until the speed in outside view is about 140Km/h. I advance the throttle completely right from the beginning and I don’t use any differential wheel braking at all to keep the plane straight. Really no need to use brakes. Watch how aggressive I work the rudder.

 

This was done with a X52pro with stick twist for rudder control, no rudder pedals here. With rudder pedals this becomes a piece of cake. Really.

 

As 159th_Viper already said – nothing is impossible.

I think twist stick might be easier as you can make large correction very fast since the throw is short.

Let me troll a little... just found that even 16 knots x-wind is good for takeoffs and landings. But it requires to be concentrated.

 

By the way, I have a bug in the current version - rudder pedal axis disappears from the axes map time to time though brakes keep working. Did not check it once and took off using only brakes and thinking that rudder is unusually useless.

Care to post a video?:D I have done a few landings in 8ms crosswinds and it is not pretty.

You nerds scare me sometimes ... :D

It took me 30 - 40 attempts with no winds and locked tail wheel method to get her into the air somewhat reliably. And now all the cool guys do hands free and with cross wi...storm? pfft ...

I knew why these prop machines are not my favourite type of aircraft ... :music_whistling:

(tbh, I am impressed. really!)

Wind is fine......wind is your friend. It's that bloody turbulence setting that's the 10th Circle of Hell.

You will laugh but we have video capture in trunk version hardly broken... both methods. So you have to beleive me. :)

 

Anyway, just few hints: with the wind from left use left brake to keep the plane straigh initially, then use rudder as you need. Then react to challenges.

 

Landing is not so tricky IF YOU FLARE AT RIGHT ALTITUDE AND SPEED (it must be 10 from 10 landings without wind) and align the plane before landing if you are crabbing. I use coordinated sideslip and level wings just before landing.

I found that flaps to TO gives a much more predictable landing.Its just hard to slow the Dora down unless you have landing flaps down and then if the plane turns into the wind the closer wing gets a massive lift.

The easy takeoff method:

Huh. I have never been so frustrated and baffled by a sim. But, on the other hand, I have never purchased an Eagle Dynamics product that didn't eventually wind up being well-worth the time sunk into it.

So, anyhow, I've tried every gimmicky and not-so-gimmicky technique I've seen here, thought up myself, and various combinations thereof. Full flaps, tail-heavy trim, stand on the rudder, dance the brakes, MW-50 + full throttle the second I enter the cockpit, not locking the tailwheel, and so forth.

But as it turns out the official method appears to work. I thought that's what I was doing originally, but maybe not. Stick back to lock the tailwheel, slowly advance the throttle to 2500-3000rpm, while using rudder to keep centered on the runway. At around 170km/h, center the stick, and it gets airborne.

Maybe the gentle buildup of speed, gentle centering of the stick, and gentle control inputs as the aircraft takes off are the key. Also, it seems like right rudder only - center the rudder to correct left, but don't apply left rudder. And as you center the stick, you can kind of feel the plane's control surfaces (other than the rudder) getting some tentative authority, although at that moment it's still very departure-prone.

More practice is required, but for the first time I'm seeing fairly consistent results.

Also anyone struggling should check rudder and take off assist are OFF. It just makes things harder as you end up fighting it.

Taking off with Dora does not seems to be as difficult to me. Personally I took off at my 2. attempt (full realistic settings, assistance off). I don't even have pedals nor any curvature on rudder. There are many valuable hints how to takeoff this beast. I would like to add some of mine:

• When centered on runway, lock your tail wheel with stick. Don't pull it all the way back. Just a little, but to be sure it locks the tail wheel.

• Don't mess with differential braking. Braking during takeoff sound little bit silly. Dora is perfectly manageable with rudder and ailerons during takeoff.

• Just advance the throttle to start moving. Then continue to max power (or little less, if you don't feel for max).

• There comes the tricky part. Your aircraft will try to turn left and to roll left as you start to accelerate and your engine to roar. Use very coarse inputs of right rudder and right ailerons to keep the aircraft centered. Don't be afraid to do this at lower speeds. You will see when controls start to work better (Dora will tend to turn right) and then straighten them a little.

• If you didn't push the stick too far back (or center it a little about 150-170 kmph), your tail will rise itself and the aircraft will literally get airborne on its own. These takeoff flaps are really nice.

I just wanted to say - I was having a hell of a time trying to take off in the Dora last night after having had several fine takeoffs and landings earlier in the afternoon.

I realized that I kept forgetting to put the flaps in "takeoff" position ... and the Dora starts with the flaps full down in landing position. With the flaps down, the Dora gains enough lift at 50-80km/h to lose a LOT of traction and start slipping all over the place. What's more - it produces enough drag that once the plane does somewhat lift off the runway it still isn't going fast enough to not stall, resulting in a sharp drop of the left wing and the plane turning into a crater.

So my first step after closing all the fuses? Flaps up.

I also find that flaps fully retracted make the aircraft stick to the ground and retain traction for a much longer run of the runway. You still have to dance on the rudder pedals (start with 30%-50% right rudder and bounce to center as needed to maintain a more or less straight trajectory), but you should feel quite a bit more in control of your aircraft.

So:

1. Start plane

2. Ensure flaps in fully retracted position (fully raised - the runways are so long you don't need "takeoff" flaps)

3. Position at base of runway, roll forward and lock tailwheel centered

4. 30%-50% right rudder

5. Throttle to 2,500-3,000 rpms and dance dance dance!

For me the absolute key is making sure my flaps are retracted to avoid the loss of wheel traction at low speeds. While rolling I just keep my eye on the artificial horizon's vertical slip indicator. You shouldn't need to ever give left rudder during takeoff - just slide between 50% and 0% right rudder to counteract the tendency of the aircraft to pull to the left.

Hope this helps!

Small question: which is the largest runway on the DCS map? :music_whistling: