Switching to MPRF after target lock - Page 3 - ED Forums
 


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Old 06-18-2017, 03:31 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Breakshot View Post
Ironhand, the PRF does change during STT, you can test it by switching to MED at beyond its range, say at 60km. You should lose STT lock...
Lock is maintained in the F-15 once in STT regardles of PRF even at max range headon.
In TWS however the bug is dropped if you change from HPRF to MPRF beyond 25NM.

EDIT: After fiddlng around with this a bit i tend to believe that once you have entered STT you are unable to change PRF anymore. STT will maintain the PRF you had when you entered STT.
Reason: In F-15 you can TWS bug a headon target in MPRF at 40NM but you can't go to STT. And as I stated before, if you STT lock a headon target at >40NM in HPRF and then change to MPRF you should loose the lock. But lock is maintained.

EDIT EDIT: I'm starting to suspect that STT does little more than tick on a flag like; if STT==1 then SARH_can_track_target. But its a different set of parameters that decide if your missile is gonna guide all the way to the target or not.
That might also be why we see AIM's wander off to track chaff dropped a year ago.
I have also seen AIM's guide perfect to an intercept despite that target was in a notch, MEM was blinking and TD box was not even on the bandit anymore.

From what I can gather from this, you should chose MPRF before entering STT to increase your chances of maintaining a lock on your target and cross your fingers for a succesful intercept.
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Old 06-19-2017, 11:29 AM   #22
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Yes, it is modeled differently for the F15. One way to test is to use radar reset button in STT. Then unlock target. For Flanker, the parameters would be reset, for F15 no change. However in TWS, PRF changes do work.

Certainly makes flying F15 more intuitive in that sense you don't have to worry once STT is established. But in TWS, you must enter MED at earliest convenience.

While basically for RuFor everything is modeled manually.

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Old 06-19-2017, 12:41 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakshot View Post
Ironhand, the PRF does change during STT, you can test it by switching to MED at beyond its range, say at 60km. You should lose STT lock...

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I had tested that prior to starting this thread but the range was right around 60km. When the lock was wasn't broken, I made an assumption that was incorrect. Retested at 80km range and, the lock, indeed, dropped.

I hadn't fully appreciated the the effect that the proper PRF has on your ability to lock a target that you can otherwise "see" on radar. At a range where the same forward hemisphere target first becomes visible in ILV, HPRF, and MPRF (to use the West's designations), a lock can only be achieved with HPRF. The other two PRF settings won't lock until the range has decreased.

Wish I could find a way to get more sim time. There's so much that I'm missing now.
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:51 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svend_Dellepude
I have also seen AIM's guide perfect to an intercept despite that target was in a notch, MEM was blinking and TD box was not even on the bandit anymore.
I've seen so many ERs hit me after the platform has been blown to hell that I'm starting to believe this is all magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakshot
While basically for RuFor everything is modeled manually.
I remember the good old days where you had to manually follow the target in TWS otherwise it would lose the bug when it went outside elevation limits. The funniest part is that almost none of the Eagle drivers knew about this..
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:55 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Ironhand View Post
I had tested that prior to starting this thread but the range was right around 60km. When the lock was wasn't broken, I made an assumption that was incorrect. Retested at 80km range and, the lock, indeed, dropped.

I hadn't fully appreciated the the effect that the proper PRF has on your ability to lock a target that you can otherwise "see" on radar. At a range where the same forward hemisphere target first becomes visible in ILV, HPRF, and MPRF (to use the West's designations), a lock can only be achieved with HPRF. The other two PRF settings won't lock until the range has decreased.

Wish I could find a way to get more sim time. There's so much that I'm missing now.
Cool! yeah we all have our phases... there is always something new to learn and discover


@Blaze, yeah man I actually preferred it that way, could use my elevation wheel for best effect... Now you have to digital step by step...
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:04 PM   #26
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Notch works better against the ground obviously but against the sky it depends on cloud cover. Most doppler filters nowaday are somewhat automatic in terms of the filtering range.

As we are without MP synced clouds atm I guess the notch against the sky is just a very very simplified way to represent that.


Running PRFs which are lower then "high" is kinda tricky in STT. Its mostly about duty cycle there to my knowledge. Basically with a multibar scan pattern one has multiple weakish returns to figure out if its a contact or just something else. In STT one basically needs the duty cycle ramped up as much as possible to get some usable SNR.

Thats also just an aspect which is completely missing, search pattern influence on detection range.


I really hope le AWG9 implementation will bring some real radar mechanics to the table, having a competent RIO will be paramount.

STT in pulse and pulse doppler varieties, pulse doppler search, just plain RWS, pulse search, TWS in automatic and in manual mode, manual doppler filter tuning with multiple inputs, analog signal readout so even if stuff doesnt get detected as contact you can still spot it, oh and _then_ only it is that PRFs kick in. ;D

Gonna be glorious or RIO is going to be pointless lol.
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:24 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microvax View Post
Notch works better against the ground obviously but against the sky it depends on cloud cover. Most doppler filters nowaday are somewhat automatic in terms of the filtering range.

As we are without MP synced clouds atm I guess the notch against the sky is just a very very simplified way to represent that.


Running PRFs which are lower then "high" is kinda tricky in STT. Its mostly about duty cycle there to my knowledge. Basically with a multibar scan pattern one has multiple weakish returns to figure out if its a contact or just something else. In STT one basically needs the duty cycle ramped up as much as possible to get some usable SNR.

Thats also just an aspect which is completely missing, search pattern influence on detection range.


I really hope le AWG9 implementation will bring some real radar mechanics to the table, having a competent RIO will be paramount.

STT in pulse and pulse doppler varieties, pulse doppler search, just plain RWS, pulse search, TWS in automatic and in manual mode, manual doppler filter tuning with multiple inputs, analog signal readout so even if stuff doesnt get detected as contact you can still spot it, oh and _then_ only it is that PRFs kick in. ;D

Gonna be glorious or RIO is going to be pointless lol.
I'm gonna have to start interviewing for a RIO soon. Gonna be damn impossible to find one that I can trust and also knows all this. I bet they'll be expecting to be paid by the hour.

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Old 06-19-2017, 02:47 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by <Blaze> View Post
I've seen so many ERs hit me after the platform has been blown to hell that I'm starting to believe this is all magic.
Come to think of it I've seen this too.
Maybe it works like this: shooter blown to pieces-> lock is lost -> 8 sec memory timer start?
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:12 PM   #29
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Were you jamming? ^^
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:33 PM   #30
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Nope. Almost never use jammer since it's mostly useless and if I do I switch it off around 25NM before merge.
Only advantage is that russian radars can't use TWS in jamming environment.

In my example I was the shooter and AIM-7 guided perfectly to a MiG-29A, which was not jamming, even though it had entered the notch, memory timer had kicked in and TD box in HUD had wandered off the target.
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