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Old 04-26-2017, 06:35 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Screamadelica View Post
Actually you have summed up the situation quite well.
In reality, during a combat situation you would be lucky to have time to alter the target wingspan before it all started. Just set the range to the convergence setting, 300 yards or whatever the official distance is, and forget about it.
The best advice is "Get close, and when you think you are close enough, get closer."
Everything else is just a matter of practice. In deflection shooting, there are so many variables involved, it usually becomes a case of "fire when it feels right".
Cheers, Scream.
I even wonder about setting wingspan and range. I always set to 37 ft and 300 yds, but as I said earlier, if you look at the YT videos, no one seems to bother with that. In all the videos I've seen, wingspan and range are at default, unadjusted. Doesn't seem to affect the pilot's ability to very easily make light work of the 190s!
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Old 04-26-2017, 09:30 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imacken View Post
I even wonder about setting wingspan and range. I always set to 37 ft and 300 yds, but as I said earlier, if you look at the YT videos, no one seems to bother with that. In all the videos I've seen, wingspan and range are at default, unadjusted. Doesn't seem to affect the pilot's ability to very easily make light work of the 190s!
Jealousy doesn't come into it!
Another point is that the sight reticle is a bit off: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...37&postcount=4
Generally, the outer circle is too wide while the space between horizontal lines (distance adjust) too narrow.
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Old 04-26-2017, 07:49 PM   #13
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Why is the convergence value such a 'secret'? Why is it not simply specified along with all other aspects of the aircraft?
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Old 04-26-2017, 11:35 PM   #14
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Reading some pilots notes from the Battle of Britain, using just .303s of course, he stated 250 yards Harmonisation distance, and that the bullets would take .28 of a second to travel that distance, and also that a fighter could travel 40 yards in that time. So, this seems to broadly agree with the numbers quoted by Jocko417.

Also, I'm fairly sure that harmonisation didn't necessarily mean all guns converged on a single point, but that they were arranged to cover a strip of space. or more than one spot. This varied as the war progressed, and as guns got heavier/tactics changed (and depending on squadron tactics).

Humm.... Here we go... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_harmonisation I might have known Jimmy Wales would have the answers.
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Old 04-27-2017, 07:06 AM   #15
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There is a manual on gun convergence on Avialogs: AAF 200-1 Manual for Fighter Gun Harmonisation, some of the illustrations on mkii's wiki link are taken from the manual.

http://www.avialogs.com/index.php/item/56042.html
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Old 04-29-2017, 11:27 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imacken View Post
Why is the convergence value such a 'secret'? Why is it not simply specified along with all other aspects of the aircraft?
Better yet, why can't we adjust it?
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:17 AM   #17
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I did some testing and came to the conclusion that if you set the range to 200yds and the width to 35 then firing when the wings just fill the bars you seem to hit it at convergence. Less than one seconds burst will remove a wing.

Here is my gunsight at the moment my rounds hit



Here is the external view taken at the same moment. You can see the tracer.



and here is another external view showing the tracer passing the target (if the resolution is still good enough in the upload). It is not very clear whether the bullets are diverging or still converging at a later point. Perhaps they never converge perfectly (which would be more authentic) but it does seem that there is still a lethal concentration beyond 200yds. This shot of one second did remove the 109s wing.



Just to be clear, this a screenshot taken 0.5 seconds later that shows the gunsight settings. Perhaps I had the wingspan nearer 38 ft but it makes little difference when attacking a moving object at a faster speed. You should really open fire before it fits exactly anyway.



Very short video here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnnUX2ZNM8k

It is not very scientific but it is enough to convince me that shooting at 200-250yds gives a very lethal concentration at the target. There is still some argument within my squad as to whether the gunsight settings are accurate. Klem has been doing experiments that somehow involve placing a 109 at a precise distance (on the ground?) in ME and then cutting & pasting the 109 between the bars of the spit sight and says it is way out. I am not sure exactly what he is doing and whether he is introducing an error but my own experiments in the air seem to show that assuming the sight is accurate, even if it is not, does give a good result. I have always preferred to shoot at 100yds and it is a hard habit to break but it works for me to shoot earlier.
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Last edited by Roblex; 06-19-2017 at 02:27 PM. Reason: Adding last screenshot.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:48 AM   #18
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Nice work Roblex.


At 250 yards, or so, the contacts are just so tiny, making up so few pixels on the screen. It's very hard to aim at something that far away I find.
I've always adopted the "wait until he fills the gunsight" approach (i.e. ~100 yards) also. However, I've found that I seldom get the devastating results at such short range. I guess I'm shooting inside the convergence point also, and that to get the sweet-spot I need to be opening up further out... but then it's so hard to hit something there....

Dilemmas!
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:45 PM   #19
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Yeah I usually set my gunsight to 250 yards, and the wingspan to a few feet more than minimum, whatever that is. I will try and set it to 200 yards now after reading this detailed report. Thanks again!
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philstyle View Post
Nice work Roblex.


At 250 yards, or so, the contacts are just so tiny, making up so few pixels on the screen. It's very hard to aim at something that far away I find.
I've always adopted the "wait until he fills the gunsight" approach (i.e. ~100 yards) also. However, I've found that I seldom get the devastating results at such short range. I guess I'm shooting inside the convergence point also, and that to get the sweet-spot I need to be opening up further out... but then it's so hard to hit something there....

Dilemmas!
As convergence on the Spitfire is "around" 225-250 yards, if you shoot at ~100 yards your rounds will go each side of the cockpit, converging in front of him! given that he's flying straight and level and your gun-sight is on his fuselage, it would be better to aim slightly off to one side and slightly high, top of the tail height, this is because your rounds will be coming "up" from your gun position to the sight level line, so until convergence they are "low", the best you can do is hit him with all the guns from one wing.

This all changes in a turn fight as you're likely to get hits on his wings which are a bigger target in a turn.

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