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Engine startup A-10C


knightal

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Hi

 

Can anyone offer an explanation on the following please.

 

Re startup up of the A-10C. I have on several occasions got the engines started and plane in the air. However what I find is that on most startups the engines take a very long time to actually start, and quite often only one will start.

 

I get to the stage where APU is on all sounds and looks good I move the left Warthog Throttle from the off position to idle and nothing. some time all the dials on the lower right front panel that were running slow down and come to an almost stop.

 

I've tried different things even starting the Right Engine which will on occasion start up.

 

I've had other times when only one of the engines will start and have taken off with just one and then mid flight the other engine will start.

 

I have completed the A-10C mission where you are required to Hi-Jack the A-10C as this only requires you to get the engines spooling, so it's a good test.

 

I am however at a loss as to why the engines are so stubborn to get started.

 

Every video and tutorial I've watched and followed along with has the engines startup straight away.

 

Any further advise would be greatly appreciated.

 

Allan :pilotfly:

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Yup. Make sure your fuel pumps are on and watch not only the oil pressure and percent rpm gauges, but pay close attention to your temp gauge. If you don't see the temp gauge suddenly come to life as your oil pressure and percent rpm are climbing, your engine is failing to light. Pull the throttle back through the stop, motor it for a few seconds, then try to start it again.


Edited by eaglecash867

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Track would definitely help or at least some specific numbers and process to replicate. What are the APU RPM and EGT before attempting a start? How many seconds does various things happen? What are the times, RPM, and temperatures of the various engines?

 

The A-10 has always been very robust in starting providing I did the correct procedure.

 

Troublesome starts are practically guaranteed if the APU is not allowed to reach full operation before starting or if more than one engine is being started at the same time.

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Yup. Make sure your fuel pumps are on and watch not only the oil pressure and percent rpm gauges, but pay close attention to your temp gauge. If you don't see the temp gauge suddenly come to life as your oil pressure and percent rpm are climbing, your engine is failing to light. Pull the throttle back through the stop, motor it for a few seconds, then try to start it again.

 

By Fuel Pumps I presume you are referring to the four Boost Pump switches. If so yes I have them on.

 

I did notice on a few occasions that the oil pressure gauge was extremely low to being zero. Actually what you suggest by reducing throttle and switching off the engine and restarting is one way I have got the engine to spool up.

 

It just that it happens every time I try any mission that requires a cold start. Often the APU % gauge doesn't get past 60% and then drops to 20%

 

Should I be using the keyboard commands to start the engine rather than relying on the Warthog throttle? I have tried this but not to any great success.

 

It's just annoying that every tutorial or startup Video I watch they never have this problem which leads me to think it is something I'm doing wrong.

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I get to the stage where APU is on all sounds and looks good I move the left Warthog Throttle from the off position to idle and nothing. some time all the dials on the lower right front panel that were running slow down and come to an almost stop.

 

This sounds like an old DCS issue where you have to cycle your controls their entire range before the idle-cut off is registered properly.

 

Try this:

After getting into the aircraft, pull your throttles out of the cut-off, and cycle through their range and pull them back into the cut-off.

Then try again.

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This sounds like an old DCS issue where you have to cycle your controls their entire range before the idle-cut off is registered properly.

 

Try this:

After getting into the aircraft, pull your throttles out of the cut-off, and cycle through their range and pull them back into the cut-off.

Then try again.

 

Hi Just gave that a try but still no luck. I get to the where you turn on the APU generator but the APU % gauge only ever gets to 60% and then drops to 20% and just stays there.

 

It's got me beat.

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Hi Just gave that a try but still no luck. I get to the where you turn on the APU generator but the APU % gauge only ever gets to 60% and then drops to 20% and just stays there.

 

It's got me beat.

If the APU doesn't fully start it's because one or both engines are motoring. Make sure the throttles are in the cutoff position and the ENG OPER switches are in "NORM".

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If you draw on the APU bleed air before it's fully running it can and will do this sort of stall. E.g. one engine handle at idle before APU start switch moved to start.

 

Make sure that both throttle handles are off and neither operate switch is in motor before you turn on the APU. Then make sure the APU reaches something like 100% RPM, 415°C EGT.

 

The only two switches you need to try this is battery on, APU start.

 

Then all that is needed for the left engine is Inverter Standby and to move the left handle from off to idle. It should stabilize at 60% and 560°C. Wait for the eng start cycle caution to go out before continuing.

 

Then all that is needed for the right engine is fuel (DC fuel pump was enough for the APU and left engine) so why not cross feed? If you manage to get left but fail right we'll worry about that.

 

I did find that left throttle handle in idle when starting APU means APU fails. The same thing happened with left operate in motor. So don't do that.

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Here is the procedure I use:

 

Set Throttles and switches in pre-start positions

Battery to Power

Inverter to Standby

Lamp Test

Fuel Gauge Test

Oxygen System On / Test

Radios On x 3

Boost Pumps On / Check Fuel Switches Norm

APU Start watch RPM 100%

APU Gen to ON

AC Gen ON x 2

Left Throttle to Idle / Watch Temps & 60% RPM

Right Throttle to Idle / Watch Temps & 60% RPM

APU Gen to OFF

APU to OFF

Uncage SAI

Pitot Heat to ON

Lights to ON / SET

CDU & EGI to ON

CICU and JTARS to ON

IFCC to TEST /Run HUD BIT Test

Engage SAS x 4

TO Trim Set (2 sec.)

Exit HUD BIT when complete

MFCDS to ON

Load DTS Cartridge

Set MFCDS

IFCC to ON

Anti-Skid to ON / Nose Wheel Steering to ON

CMSP to Standby / CMSP Systems to ON

After INS is Aligned (4 min.)

Select NAV on CDU Page

Select EGI Mode

EAC to ARMED / Check Switch

Set CDU Steer Point to Flight Plan

Ejection Seat ARMED

Check Canopy Closed and Locked

Check Caution Panel

Start AGM-65 Alignment as required

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A-10C Basic takeoff problem

 

Hi

 

I just tried the DCS startup Mission for the A-10C and disconnected my Warthog Throttle controller and all performed as it should.

Then tried it with the Throttle controller connected and the engine refuse to start.

 

Iv'e gone through the control setup pages to see if there is a conflicting setting but nothing jumps out.

 

If in fact this is the cause any ideas where I should be looking?

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Are you using auto-start? Or are you doing the start yourself?

 

Sounds like either you, the auto-start sequence, or a controller spike is causing an engine to be motoring prematurely.

 

As said above, the APU needs to be fully spooled up before an attempt can be made to start an engine. If the APU isn't on full-steam, it'll never be succesfull as you've noticed.

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Here is the procedure I use:

 

Set Throttles and switches in pre-start positions

Battery to Power

Inverter to Standby

Lamp Test

Fuel Gauge Test

Oxygen System On / Test

Radios On x 3

Boost Pumps On / Check Fuel Switches Norm

APU Start watch RPM 100%

APU Gen to ON

AC Gen ON x 2

Left Throttle to Idle / Watch Temps & 60% RPM

Right Throttle to Idle / Watch Temps & 60% RPM

APU Gen to OFF

APU to OFF

Uncage SAI

Pitot Heat to ON

Lights to ON / SET

CDU & EGI to ON

CICU and JTARS to ON

IFCC to TEST /Run HUD BIT Test

Engage SAS x 4

TO Trim Set (2 sec.)

Exit HUD BIT when complete

MFCDS to ON

Load DTS Cartridge

Set MFCDS

IFCC to ON

Anti-Skid to ON / Nose Wheel Steering to ON

CMSP to Standby / CMSP Systems to ON

After INS is Aligned (4 min.)

Select NAV on CDU Page

Select EGI Mode

EAC to ARMED / Check Switch

Set CDU Steer Point to Flight Plan

Ejection Seat ARMED

Check Canopy Closed and Locked

Check Caution Panel

Start AGM-65 Alignment as required

 

Thanks for your comment.

 

I think I may have found my problem.

 

As mentioned I'm using the Thrustmaster Warthog Joystick and Throttle. The problem seems to be a conflict with the throttle being in the OFF position. I have disconnected the throttle and all is good.

I then connected the throttle but with the throttle controllers in the idle position and at the appropriate time started the engines using the keyboard commands (RHT ALT + HOME , RHT CTRL + HOME) and all works. Once engines are spooling the throttle works fine APU on the throttle responds as do all other switches.

 

I am still however at a loss as to where the conflict is. I've checked through the Adjust Controls menu but nothing seems out of place. I think I'll raise this in a separate thread to avoid confusion.

 

Thanks for your startup list I'll print it out it will be a very handy reference.

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Are you using auto-start? Or are you doing the start yourself?

 

Sounds like either you, the auto-start sequence, or a controller spike is causing an engine to be motoring prematurely.

 

As said above, the APU needs to be fully spooled up before an attempt can be made to start an engine. If the APU isn't on full-steam, it'll never be succesfull as you've noticed.

 

Hi yes doing the startup myself, I wasn't aware there was an auto startup. :thumbup:

 

I'm thinking it is a conflict with my throttle as I mentioned below just looking into now. Thanks for your comment. Auto startup Mmm I am a bit of a lazy sod :smilewink:

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Thanks for your comment.

 

I think I may have found my problem.

 

As mentioned I'm using the Thrustmaster Warthog Joystick and Throttle. The problem seems to be a conflict with the throttle being in the OFF position. I have disconnected the throttle and all is good.

I then connected the throttle but with the throttle controllers in the idle position and at the appropriate time started the engines using the keyboard commands (RHT ALT + HOME , RHT CTRL + HOME) and all works. Once engines are spooling the throttle works fine APU on the throttle responds as do all other switches.

 

I am still however at a loss as to where the conflict is. I've checked through the Adjust Controls menu but nothing seems out of place. I think I'll raise this in a separate thread to avoid confusion.

 

Thanks for your startup list I'll print it out it will be a very handy reference.

Load the mission with throttles in IDLE. Once the mission has loaded and you're in the cockpit, move the throttles to max power and back to idle and then set them to OFF. That should synchronize your physical throttles with the virtual throttles. After you have done that you can start the startup procedure and the throttles should work fine.

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...

 

keyboard commands (RHT ALT + HOME , RHT CTRL + HOME) and all works. Once engines are spooling the throttle works fine APU on the throttle responds as do all other switches.

 

I am still however at a loss as to where the conflict is. I've checked through the Adjust Controls menu but nothing seems out of place. I think I'll raise this in a separate thread to avoid confusion...

 

 

 

Have you tried to bind the keyboard commands (L Throttle engine Off/Right Throttle engine off ) in the sim A-10C keyboard settings to the corresponding detent buttons (Buttton 29 / Button 30)? Just delete the entry in the Throttle column (if something is already bound) and pull the corresponding lever from idle to off to have the button press recognized.


Edited by sharkfin61

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Okay, so after you cycle the throttles through their range once, and pull them back into the cut-off. Can you then repeatably put them to idle and cut-off and visa versa without fault?

 

No. Even after I cycle the throttles through their range nothing happens all gauges start to shut down.

If I disconnect the Warthog throttle and use keyboard and Joystick all works fine.

 

If the engines are already running then yes the throttle levers will shut off the engines

 

All is OK using the throttle if the engines are already started IE on the runway. :cry:


Edited by knightal
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Have you tried to bind the keyboard commands (L Throttle engine Off/Right Throttle engine off ) in the sim A-10C keyboard settings to the corresponding detent buttons (Buttton 29 / Button 30)? Just delete the entry in the Throttle column (if something is already bound) and pull the corresponding lever from idle to off to have the button press recognized.

 

Yes I looked at that and have that set to Button 29 / Button 30

 

I just cleared the Keyboard Engine start and stop commands (RALT+HOME/RCTRL+HOME) & (RALT+END/RCTRL=END) and I actually got the engines started using the Warthog throttle controller. Although it took about 20 minutes to get the right engine to start.

 

I wasn't aware that the keyboard commands could affect the the HOTAS controls.

 

I'll do a few more cold start missions just in case it was a fluke.

 

Thanks.


Edited by knightal
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No. Even after I cycle the throttles through their range nothing happens all gauges start to shut down.

If I disconnect the Warthog throttle and use keyboard and Joystick all works fine.

 

All is OK using the throttle if the engines are already started IE on the runway. :cry:

 

No, I mean before you do anything else in the cockpit.

So, all is switched off, no electrics, nothing.

 

Can you physically see the throttles moving forward and back in the cockpit?

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Specifically using the Throttle - HOTAS Warthog controller where JOY_BTN30 is constantly in the on state when the left throttle handle is in the off position:

 

This JOY_BTN30 should be bound to the action titled exactly "Left Engine Throttle Set OFF". It will not be possible to bind any other controller keyboard, Joystick - HOTAS Warthog, rudder pedals, etc. to this action.

 

And moving the throttle handle between off and idle position should result in the virtual cockpit handle doing the same. If the handle in the virtual cockpit does not synchronize with the controller handle after at most one cycle of off-idle then there is something wrong with the control scheme.

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As Yurgon suggested, you really need to post a track file of your trying to start your engines. With that, any one of us here can take a quick look around the cockpit to see what you have configured incorrectly. Without it, all we can do is guess. Post a track so we can see if its something simple.

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If you go to the options menu on the main screen of DCS, the little gear at the top....there is a tab called misc and under that tab is a setting to synchronize the game setting to the controller at mission start. That needs to be checked. The Warthog throttle and the A-10C sim were literally made to work together, and there should be very little you have to change to get it to work. I use the default setup except for a few VR specific things I have added.

 

You are lifting the throttles back over the hump and clear into the OFF position, and not just moving them to minimum throttle setting, right? If your bindings are somehow screwed up, I think you can just delete the saved games folder and let the game reload them.


Edited by Mad Dog 7.62

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