Some interesting information from Nick Grey on a youtube comment

Hey guys

I am not sure if this has already posted here in the forum. Otherwise please apologise my double post.

Nick Grey, founder and CEO of ED posted some interesting information on a youtube comment:

Dear Sir, thank you very much for your most excellent video and thank you for stating that the ‘goods outweigh the bads’ as well for your stance on personal attacks. It is professional and appreciated. As a matter of record, I agree 100% with absolutely everything that you say. We have a long way to go and we are far from perfect. Please know that we will not stop listening and reacting to all positive and negative feedback from our community, partners and friends. May I take this opportunity to highlight some of the stuff we are working on. Since March 2018 Katia took over as COO and I have taken a more active role following the tragic death of my partner and friend Igor Tishin. From this moment on, we understood that we needed to make some radical changes and we decided to focus on the following non module related components: a new rendergraph engine, new world and world simulation engine, new graphics mutithreading, new weather, new campaign engine, new sound engine, new multiplayer code, new coms engine, new damage modelling engine, new AI, new effects, and much more. Some of these will be seeing the light of day this year and others in 21. As a CEO of a software company you understand the kind of challenges such rewrites involve, especially when having to maintain 5 mio lines of legacy code in the process. So in order to achieve this we have grown the team from 60 to 150, with the majority of new staff going into core enhancements. The effect to date is that we have doubled our user base year on year, quadrupled turnover and created a mountain of issues which we need to solve with the legacy engine too. We run a 3000 bug database which is maddening and thanks to the Open Beta have the focus of a very large, experienced and vocal user base who flag things exceptionally fast. Not everything we produce works out of the box and sometimes we let rubbish out of the door. This is unacceptable and there is no excuse, but it is a byproduct of our pace as well as a fact of life with the sudden closing of all our offices due to strict CV measures, which are sadly still in place. We reinvest 100% of our earnings into the future, I personally take zero out of the business and consider this a labour of love. Thankfully I have other much bigger but far less passionate businesses that pay rent and keep everyone in hot dinners. We know that the challenges ahead are formidable, especially in the light of the steam roller on the horizon that is MSFS 2020, but we have passion and we serve a passionate customer base with pleasure and enthusiasm. I know your channel is still relatively small but I really appreciated your detailed, honest and balanced remarks and so felt compelled to give you some insight into what is going on behind the scenes. Let’s see where we go and if we will still deserve your encouraging words in the future. Respectfully yours, Nick (ED Founder)

Thank you Nick for this comment. You can‘t imagine how happy I have felt when reading your comment. I totally agree with everything you wrote in your comment and I am looking forward to see these improvement this year and in 2021. Thank you for your all your effort and passion and I am very happy to be a customer of ED and being a part of this wonderful and awesome flight combat simulation :thumbup:

Best regards

Weasel

Here you find the youtube video and comment:

Thanks for sharing this info .. I didn’t knew that channel... it seems a nice place, so I’ve just subscribed.

Great post, many thanks!

Great viewpoints in the video.

Now there's finally a number on how big ED is. Was literally guesstimating before. My wild guess was around 100-120, so not too bad. And it'S great to see they increased the team size - we should see the results within the next 1-2 years.

I don't see MSFS as a direct competition, but people will certainly increase the amount of "New weather and clouds, please!" a lot once that thing drops. And my guess is just that we have to wait because ED wants to nail it.

Hey guys

 

I am not sure if this has already posted here in the forum. Otherwise please apologise my double post.

 

Nick Grey, founder and CEO of ED posted some interesting information on a youtube comment:

 

 

 

Thank you Nick for this comment. You can‘t imagine how happy I have felt when reading your comment. I totally agree with everything you wrote in your comment and I am looking forward to see these improvement this year and in 2021. Thank you for your all your effort and passion and I am very happy to be a customer of ED and being a part of this wonderful and awesome flight combat simulation :thumbup:

 

Best regards

Weasel

 

Here you find the youtube video and comment:

 

This stemmed (as you may or may not know as I haven't seen the video you posted) from a video done by Magz TV, as an Australian his mannerisms came off the wrong way which is why he organically mentioned such things as "Caustic language" and "Personal Attacks" on Reddit ect (sorry lmao thats just called being Australian)

Annnnnyway a close friend and might I say more technically savy friend of his managed to get in a call directly with Nick and over the next 2 hours or say exchanged a direct dialogue straightening things out and explaining to Nick the disconnects between the community and the Devs

I'll run down the most important things he said in this time to the best of my ability from what I could remember (it has been a few weeks)

First and for most, DCS barely turns a profit, Nick said this is the reason they have EA periods like they do and why they constantly needed to push Content rather then focusing on Bug fixing (and he admits they've ****ed up there) to the point where sometimes he's had to funnel his own money into DCS to keep it afloat

This is also why they can't afford to employ say...a Bug tester team

He also admits that there is a large disconnect between Him, some parts of his team and the wider community...He runs another job and he said the comparatively to that the response to the P-47 update caught him off guard entirely and has been the largest customer response hes ever seen...it was then explained to him that some people have spent almost as much money on this "Hobby" as some do on a car (the person talking to him had spent alone $1,700 AUD on DCS at that time) and this kinda started to explain to him WHY people were so pissed off

Apparently there were large figures for development thrown around I was only told one of these due to NDA and whatever other business stuff on the side.

One of them is for example, maps? like Normandy and the coming Syria map ED only gets a cut of 30% of the profit when its made by a 3rd party.

another one is in order to completely re-write the code for the game from the ground up (something Nick wants to do and the Game kinda needs and has been suggested before) would be around $50 Million USD, money the Company doesn't have.

TL DR it seems that there has been some change (and hopefully continues to be so) for example now the store says weather or not a Module is only available on the OB or Stable and as you've seen ED as basically dropped everything and gone to bug fixing.

that's why they should take on board some content creators. This forum is full of them

just crank up the price already and stop these pyrrhic discounts

its already an expensive hobby because of the equipment requirements, dont pretend somehow lowering the software costs will make up for it.

my normal friends refuse play this game because its simply too much commitment for the little interest they do have, bless their souls. you'll never capture them as a market unless you decided to get out of the simulation business which is literally why sims died as a genre the first time around

honestly its a miracle you can even find talent like yoyo in the first place because here in the states if you're good enough to write dcs modules you'd be doing work in a far more lucrative sector

just crank up the price already

You make a good point, but many people already complain about the price unfortunately...I mean quality wise something like Steel Beasts is amazing...a "Ground based DCS" if you will...but due to it's cost its no where near as popular

Unfortunately in already a niche genre the more the price is cranked up the less people will be willing to buy so its not really a net gain.

i dunno, i think theres actually plenty of money to go around. people who cry about having no money and dcs modules costing too much still drop money on some expensive silicon.

and there's this stupid effect where expensive stuff only makes people want to buy it more.

lets be honest here there are a bunch of people in dcs because of the perceived 'prestige' that accompanies the words fidelity and authenticity. while i don't agree with this motivation, it's a real market force.

a certain chris roberts knows this well.

that said, if nick really wants to do it as a labor of love and is happy enough to just more or less break even, more power to him. it's just a damn shame people only know how to look gift horses in the mouth these days.

also, msfs is absolutely not a competitor to dcs. dcs is unique in its focus and enjoys an oblique relationship to msfs to which the latter has only aroused more interest and enthusiasm in dcs. while these 'hype riders' enthused by the latest big thing are in general a transient market, the core market of airplane freaks who were here from the start are already predisposed to buy up everything -- for this segment, there is no competition, only collection.

MSFS won't compete directly...

HOWEVER... once all the newcommers to civil flight sims decide they'd like to try dogfighting...

... they'll all come over and complain loudly "why are the maps so small?!?! and why don't they have detail like MSFS does?!?! Why can't I fly from California to Jordan in one go? No Vietnam?"

Now, will that matter? Not at first, but over time, over 4 years, the calls for a terrain like FS2020 could grow into a little monster!

It would be interesting to see how ED would create a globe's worth of maps, not just for the present day, but also for past eras, WWII for example.

It might otherwise look a bit odd, for example, with Spitfires and ME109s dogfighting over a London skyline that includes buildings like the Shard and the O2.

This would be an absolutely mammoth task, as I am sure that the very large team of direct and indirect MSFS devs would tell you and they're just trying to model the earth as it currently is.

The civilian "competitor" does not really overcome DCS up close, slow down the video and freeze frame it ... it's more like google earth 3D, the high-altitude bull shots coupled with modern lighting and graphics effects make it look better than it actually is in terms of textures and terrain, and AFAIK most of the ground is static and not it's own model/poly and probably indestructible or otherwise interacting with gameplay.

Ok, so... Before I get stoned to death, and I know I'm touching a sensible subject here but given what i just read it might be an idea... gofundme? Just show a little love to these guys and give them a little support in terms of money. I know, we probably will not raise millions, but...

Now go ahead and kill me...

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just crank up the price already and stop these pyrrhic discounts

 

its already an expensive hobby because of the equipment requirements, dont pretend somehow lowering the software costs will make up for it.

 

/QUOTE]

I agree. I see complaints about module prices and really wonder. I think people should look at a new plane at $60 and divide that amount by hours of fun it will provide. Spend $60 on dinner for two and it's over in 60 minutes. Spend $60 for IMAX movie for 4 and it's over in 2.5 hours.

I don't see anything in Mr Grey's comment about the company nor making healthy profits, but if they aren't, there is an obvious solution. An ongoing subscription model. Trust me, the DCS audience will cry to high heaven, but they will stick around for the mid-term. They've got nowhere else to go.

The civilian "competitor" does not really overcome DCS up close, slow down the video and freeze frame it ... it's more like google earth 3D, the high-altitude bull shots coupled with modern lighting and graphics effects make it look better than it actually is in terms of textures and terrain, and AFAIK most of the ground is static and not it's own model/poly and probably indestructible or otherwise interacting with gameplay.

Umm, sorry, but you're totally wrong. And it does also have destructable models, and the basis for combat systems. I'm glad Mr Grey is aware of the fact that MSFS is a true threat to DCS. Competition will be good for simmers, even if it does mean we all migrate to a new platform.

just crank up the price already and stop these pyrrhic discounts

+1

I always wondered why high fidelity DCS modules cost so little compared to other modules for certain civilian flight sims.

So yeah, I would gladly pay more to support ED (and thus the longevity of my DCS passion). Bring it on. :)

I don't see anything in Mr Grey's comment about the company nor making healthy profits, but if they aren't, there is an obvious solution. An ongoing subscription model. Trust me, the DCS audience will cry to high heaven, but they will stick around for the mid-term. They've got nowhere else to go.

Can we now talk about that again?

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I also have always supported a move to a subscription model. I think most people would be very surprised by how low the monthly price would need to be in order to be revenue-neutral for Eagle Dynamics. Wags posted user numbers a few months ago and I did the math and it worked out to being somewhere between $5 and $10 a month for total access. Obviously that's just pure back of the napkin speculation but I think it's probably in the right ballpark. In practice I think you would vary the price above and below that depending on how many modules a subscriber wants access to.

Obviously, many users react extremely negatively to this suggestion. The arguments typically fall under either not wanting to pay again for something they already bought or just hating subscription models in general. I think both of those are weak arguments but I understand why people make them.

I dont. I guess those against subscribtion models are age 40 and up. No offence here, but subscribtion is the way to go. The times of pay once, use forever are long gone. Look at Xbox Game Pass, Ubisoft, Origin, Netflix, Amazon Prime, Spotify, Disney. I mean what the heck, even your mobile phone plan or Internet Provider is basically subscribtion. You Name it, its subscribtion.

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Let’s not! A bad idea remains a bad idea no matter how often you repeat it. I am quit willing to pay more for modules but.... First I would need a good base to work from. As soon as DCS World works as it should and with that I mean a descent AI that flys credibly and uses believable tactics and a decent performance that doesn’t go up and down every few patches. Oh and last but most certainly not least a good SP experience (dynamic campaign/mission system). Then I am game. The only modules I paid full price for are Heatblur’s. Excellent modules with no major bugs or issues. And the issues they do have are more the result of ED then HB’s.

As it is right now I fly it more like I do X-plane. Or I play Mbot’s highly impressive DCE campaigns.

That message finally seems to have come across now so I am hopefull. I do not need to have it all right this minute I just need to know that it is being worked on.

HOWEVER... once all the newcommers to civil flight sims decide they'd like to try dogfighting...

 

... they'll all come over and complain loudly "why are the maps so small?!?!

We get to say that military conflict areas are small....

and why don't they have detail like MSFS does?!?!

Many ways DCS has already better, and has had for long time a better graphics.

Why can't I fly from California to Jordan in one go? No Vietnam?"

We get to explain them that when afterburner eats hundreds of liters per minute and they have so small fuel tanks, they can't expect to fly B-52 and dogfight with it.

Now, will that matter? Not at first, but over time, over 4 years, the calls for a terrain like FS2020 could grow into a little monster!

And they have already started to prepare for that by developing new technologies etc.

But each year when new graphics cards are released is always such that you need to bring something new, even if you never see it. Like look at the Unreal Engine 4 and new 5 demos, you don't see those in any game!

I dont. I guess those against subscribtion models are age 40 and up. No offence here, but subscribtion is the way to go. The times of pay once, use forever are long gone. Look at Xbox Game Pass, Ubisoft, Origin, Netflix, Amazon Prime, Spotify, Disney. I mean what the heck, even your mobile phone plan or Internet Provider is basically subscribtion. You Name it, its subscribtion.

 

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Bad idea.

Can you tell what good has come out of those services?

i like my software as products, not services.