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Issues in the training missions.


Redglyph

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I'm starting a thread for a few issues I've found in the training missions of the "newly released" Bf-109, maybe it could be also used to gather issues other people see in the training missions.

 

 

It's currently version 1.5.4.55952.150.

 

 

1) Communication menu

 

I've noticed that, when coming back with F11, the training log was going up to recover and hide the communication menu, which makes it unreadable. I know a few of the keys so it wasn't a major issue for me, but others may wonder what to do.

 

You can just wait for a few seconds for the log to disappear, as a work-around. EDIT ... or simply click twice on the push-to-talk or communication menu (always forget which is used for which aircraft), this will scroll the log below :)

 

As a side note, it would be nice to be able to see the past messages... :)

 

 

2) Start-up

 

I noticed the pressure gauge didn't move when priming. Must confirm that after double-checking in the manual but I was expecting it to raise. It did not prevent the mission from going on very well though.

 

 

3) Landing session

 

I'm told to go North, and then that I should expect a runway to my one o'clock, with red smoke. There is simply no such runway, when this happens the aircraft is already well North of what I think is Senoki (the names are written in white on white on the map, so it's hard to see - already reported but ignored :( ).

 

I have no idea whether there's an airstrip I should expect, but I went to the point where I'm told to get at 400 m altitude, that happens near a hill that has about that height.

 

I didn't see any indication in the briefing... it's a bit confusing to be honest. I'll try going South instead of North and see whether it's supposed to be Senoki and update this post as work-around.


Edited by Redglyph

System specs: Win7 x64 | CPU: i7-4770K | RAM: 16 GB | GPU: GTX 980 Ti 6 GB | Thrustmaster HOTAS | MFG rudder pedals | SATA3 SSD | TrackIR

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I confirm it's Senaki for the landing session, and I think I see what the problem is.

 

- the pilot is told to turn slowly to the right, to face North

- instructions are given by the instructor, with multiple pauses

 

as those steps take time, even by going quite fast, Sonaki is already well to the East or even SE when the pilot is told to expect an airfield at 1 o'clock.

 

 

The aircraft should probably be placed further South-East to avoid this problem.

 

 

Landing session (cont'd)

 

The pilot is told to maintain 300 to 350 km/h indicated air speed, then to lower the gear and the flaps. Flaps should not be extended above 250 km/h, shouldn't this be mentioned? ;) The instructor is quite harrassing about keeping the speed above 300 km/h, so the natural instinct after lowering the landing gear is to maintain that speed.

 

After the flaps are down, the pilot is told to keep the speed between 250 and 270 km/h...

 

 

4) Microphone Static

 

The recorded instructions have a lot of static, I suppose it's coming from a bad connection to the microphone. At some point, I thought there was a leak somewhere in the plane :D

 

Well, not a major issue but that sounds a bit ... cheap, maybe it's possible to filter it out and add RF-like static instead to mask it and make it more immersive? Check how it's done in the Maple missions for the A-10C, that was pretty neat :)


Edited by Redglyph

System specs: Win7 x64 | CPU: i7-4770K | RAM: 16 GB | GPU: GTX 980 Ti 6 GB | Thrustmaster HOTAS | MFG rudder pedals | SATA3 SSD | TrackIR

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2) Startup (cont'd)

 

Wow! Didn't catch that the first time. The pilot is told to switch the magnetos before the ground crew is requested to run the inertial starter! Unless there is someone in the crew the pilot hates, I wouldn't recommend that ;)

 

Maybe it's more cautious to set the governor before starting the engine, especially since it's not tested or reset before.

 

After pumping, the pilot is told to secure the priming pump down. It's recommended on the P-51 and the Spitfire, but I'm not sure it's possible on this aircraft?

System specs: Win7 x64 | CPU: i7-4770K | RAM: 16 GB | GPU: GTX 980 Ti 6 GB | Thrustmaster HOTAS | MFG rudder pedals | SATA3 SSD | TrackIR

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About the fuel pressure gauge, it's not a bug. On a real thing, the gauge worked only when engine was running, as it was reading pressure off the engine fuel pump. I agree about landing mission scripts and waypoints, though, as this problem caught me when I first flew it as well.

i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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Yes, since I was not sure, I checked the priming part of the start-up and I think I was mislead by an old video illustrating this behaviour, taken when the module was still beta. It must have been fixed since then.

 

There are still quite a few steps that would be worth including, but I understand there's a balance between a "quick startup guide", which this seems to be closer to, and a real in-depth tutorial, that would require more work. Here it's up to the user to make his/her own in-depth learning.

 

Hopefully in the future we'll have a more persistent environment, or at least aircraft state, that will encourage to take care of those birds by really using the detailed modelling of the systems, the tear & wear and failures. It seems to me there's a good deal of potential we don't exploit now :)

System specs: Win7 x64 | CPU: i7-4770K | RAM: 16 GB | GPU: GTX 980 Ti 6 GB | Thrustmaster HOTAS | MFG rudder pedals | SATA3 SSD | TrackIR

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Thank you very much for such detailed report.

We'll re-check all the issues you've mentioned here and will fix those that a real bugs. ))

 

Thanks!

 

Here's my last one:

 

5) Ground attack

 

What the instructor says is cut when passing the first gate. Actually, I think I had the same problem with the landing lesson.

 

IMHO I think this lesson is too fast-paced, at the beginning the pilot has to adjust the plane for level flight with a lot of transient due to the initial settings, stop the annoying zoom-out that is still forced at the start of any mission, while the instructor keeps talking. Maybe I'm just bad at parallel-tasking (in fact, everyone is), but I find this counter-productive.

 

I would give a little more time to let the aircraft initialize, and use the correct initial speed of 400 km/h instead of 350 (especially since the aircraft will slow down initially due to the transients).

 

 

The climb rate of this aircraft is stunning! What kills me though is the need to compensate the torque with the joystick, I really wish there was a way to trim dynamically to mimick the "static force feedback" (read: the spring...) of a joystick vs the real stick. Made a separate thread on that, I suspect the problem will be the same with the Spitfire.

System specs: Win7 x64 | CPU: i7-4770K | RAM: 16 GB | GPU: GTX 980 Ti 6 GB | Thrustmaster HOTAS | MFG rudder pedals | SATA3 SSD | TrackIR

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Oh, so much +1 on the ground attack mission. On my first attempt, before I managed to get the plane sorted as instructed, I was already way past the entry point.

 

Managed to JUST make it on my second attempt (not hitting anything anyway), but the whole mission left me with impression of a very rushed job, at least compared to otherwise good remaining ones.

i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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It was the same here, and the instructor didn't even have the time to say everything ;)

 

By comparison, the last training mission uses the active pause to explain the mission and the weapons that will be used, which seems more didactic.

System specs: Win7 x64 | CPU: i7-4770K | RAM: 16 GB | GPU: GTX 980 Ti 6 GB | Thrustmaster HOTAS | MFG rudder pedals | SATA3 SSD | TrackIR

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  • 1 year later...

I tried again the first mission,

 

1) There is still a lot of static in the recorded instructor's voice. It's really on the whole spectrum, including high frequencies, which sounds completely wrong in that environment.

 

I think filtering the instructor's voice as if it was heard in a headset (so through a band-pass filter) would have both advantages of removing the weird HF and making the bad quality legit, and to make it more immersive at the same time.

 

2) Instructed to switch magnetos M1+M2 before asking the mechanic to turn the starter. We just don't do that :) Even during WWII, original operating manuals specifically mention to switch those magnetos after the mechanic is clear.

System specs: Win7 x64 | CPU: i7-4770K | RAM: 16 GB | GPU: GTX 980 Ti 6 GB | Thrustmaster HOTAS | MFG rudder pedals | SATA3 SSD | TrackIR

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2) Instructed to switch magnetos M1+M2 before asking the mechanic to turn the starter. We just don't do that :) Even during WWII, original operating manuals specifically mention to switch those magnetos after the mechanic is clear.

 

Speaking from the experience of actually working on and running up an engine with an inertial starter, I can say that the training instructions are probably correct. The engine in question was an inline, inverted engine installed in a run up stand in a school training for Federal Aviation Administration Certified Airframe and Powerplant mechanics. The inertial starter is about five or six feet aft of the propeller. The ground crew has to physically crank the starter for a certain length of time, and then pull a cable to engage the flywheel with the starter. That's the part that isn't obvious in DCS. The compression of the engine cylinders limit the number of revolutions the flywheel will turn the engine. I'd venture to say that while it might be marginally safer for the ground crew to not have the mags on, it's probably much safer for the pilot to not make the ground crew crank up the flywheel again because he missed the start. It isn't easy to get the flywheel up to speed. Relative to most airplanes, you're either standing on the ground at the forward wing root, or standing on the wing itself to crank the flywheel. Believe me, cranking the flywheel is MUCH safer than starting the engine by pulling the prop through.

 

After the engine is started, if you have to perform maintenance or tune the engine, you're standing in the prop wash while working. So, which is more dangerous?

When all else fails, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!

 

i-7 8700K Coffee Lake 5 GHz OC CPU, 32GB Corsair 3200 RAM, GTX1080 Ti 11Gb VRAM. Controls - Thrustmaster Warthog H.O.T.A.S., Saitek Pro rudder pedals, TrackIR 5, Oculus Rift S, Rift CV1

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