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A-10C vs L-39ZA


Varis

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The L-39 is a trainer. The ZA is an attack plane for countries that can't afford attack planes.

 

Today yea, but initially the ZA was intended as a trainer for additional weapons training with light attack capabilities. BUt the latter use for that role in the cold war probably would have only happened if tactical fighter and dedicated attack aircraft suffered such extreme losses theyd have nothing else to replace it with.

 

The Super Tucano, the poster child for modern affordable COIN, is more expensive, although then again it is fitted with a modern avionics suite


Edited by Kev2go

 

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Windows 10 64 bit Pro

Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z790 Motherboard, Intel Core i7 12700k ,Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 64gb ram (3600 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia RTX 3080 12gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; Samsung 970 EVo, , Samsung evo 860 pro 1 TB SSD, Samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD,  WD 1TB HDD

 

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I also have both. Here is a very satisfying recipe:

 

First, let me tell you that the L-39 is a very satisfying aircraft to fly in DCS. Its flight model is top notch, its mostly bug free and you will need to learn everything RAW style. No electronic in there and you will need to learn the very basic of flying before being able to achieve anything with it. This is why so many guys said that this aircraft is one of the most rewarding one in DCS. I can tell you that the first time you hit the bridge you were aiming, a LOUD YEAAAAHHH will resonate in your room!

 

THEN ... when you master it, switch to the A10. Then an ole new wave of electronic goodies will be thrown at you, but you will appreciate it more since you will see the difference between the older platform you mastered (the L-39) AND a newer top notch ground ponder filled with electronic.

 

The logical way would be to start with the "trainer" plane, master it THEN switch to the A10 when you will feel ready.

 

Just my opinion ...

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I also have both. Here is a very satisfying recipe:

 

First, let me tell you that the L-39 is a very satisfying aircraft to fly in DCS. Its flight model is top notch, its mostly bug free and you will need to learn everything RAW style. No electronic in there and you will need to learn the very basic of flying before being able to achieve anything with it. This is why so many guys said that this aircraft is one of the most rewarding one in DCS. I can tell you that the first time you hit the bridge you were aiming, a LOUD YEAAAAHHH will resonate in your room!

 

THEN ... when you master it, switch to the A10. Then an ole new wave of electronic goodies will be thrown at you, but you will appreciate it more since you will see the difference between the older platform you mastered (the L-39) AND a newer top notch ground ponder filled with electronic.

 

The logical way would be to start with the "trainer" plane, master it THEN switch to the A10 when you will feel ready.

 

Just my opinion ...

 

 

 

Ideally if going for western aircraft, youd want a western trainer to become used to Imperial system, and more familair with Western Style Instruments, radios ETC.

 

 

L39 uses the Metric system and eastern avionics.

 

 

BAE Hawk would have been it, but I would warn to stay away from that. Since we dont have a T38, the F5E makes a nice "trainer" stand in , before moving into modern aircraft, and it still works great as a frontline combat Tactical Fighter in Cold war servers.

 

Sure Moving from an F5E to A10 , its a totally different role, but Some avionics and equipment knowledge will be transfereable : TACAN, , AN/ARC 164 RADIO set, RWR scope display and its alpha numeric threat Symbology display type , and of course analog instruments in the imperial system.


Edited by Kev2go

 

Build:

 

Windows 10 64 bit Pro

Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z790 Motherboard, Intel Core i7 12700k ,Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 64gb ram (3600 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia RTX 3080 12gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; Samsung 970 EVo, , Samsung evo 860 pro 1 TB SSD, Samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD,  WD 1TB HDD

 

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Ideally if going for western aircraft, youd want a western trainer to become used to Imperial system, and more familair with Western Style Instruments, radios ETC.

 

 

L39 uses the Metric system and eastern avionics.

 

 

BAE Hawk would have been it, but I would warn to stay away from that. Since we dont have a T38, the F5E makes a nice "trainer" stand in , before moving into modern aircraft, and it still works great as a frontline combat Tactical Fighter in Cold war servers.

 

Sure Moving from an F5E to A10 , its a totally different role, but Some avionics and equipment knowledge will be transfereable : TACAN, , AN/ARC 164 RADIO set, RWR scope display and its alpha numeric threat Symbology display type , and of course analog instruments in the imperial system.

 

I actually agree with you, the F5 is a great starter plane and has a bit more punch to it. The F5 is actually the aircraft I started to study right after the L39!

 

All to say that the A10 is an awesome plane ... Really. But to really fully appreciate it, you need to have fought with more basic plane before. The L39 and the F5 are indeed awesome for that job!

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There is no point to buying a trainer in a simulation. The point of trainer aircraft in the real world is to prepare pilots for more complicated and more expensive aircraft so they don't crash them on the first dau. But...

 

This. Is. A. Simulator. It's already a trainer.

 

You can crash a zillion times learning and not die and not cost the taxpayer a dime.

 

It's your choice you can do whatever you want. Indeed it is a sim.

 

But I can tell you, take 2 players ...

 

One who learned to fly DCS in an L39 and can drop a MK-82 dead center on a tank without electronic help, never used an autopilot, had to use terrain and his brain to avoid sam site (no radar warning), had to open his eyes and learned ennemi tactics since he has no radar, had to keep fight close since he only has IR missile/gun ... He becomes an awesome virtual pilot believe me. THAN make that guy jump in the F18.

 

The second pilot start right away in the F18 with all the bell and whistle.

 

Which one will be the most effective one?

 

There is a reason why formula one pilots all began in 2 strokes cart racing. And no its not only about saving crashes. There are techniques to learn. I am not saying it cannot be done. Yes you can do that. But saying that is useless is just plain wrong.

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Answering to the OP

They are too different aircraft to make a REAL COMPARISON and many things i could say has been already told. However, albatross can select imperial or metric sistem, and while it doesn't make it really an aircraft for training western stuff it helps...my other point is that, while the Hog is a beast, that can do incredible amounts of damage, its not the same. I mean, the biggest payload L39 can carry are 4 250 kg bombs or 8 chute-dragged 100 kg bombs...not impressive by any means, but the sense of satisfaction you get when you manage to destroy something like an outpost or something alike using nothing but timing and skill is unmatched

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Thanks great points from all of you and this discussion has proven far more insightful than I initially hoped for!

 

Very interesting point with the F5! Somehow I don't find the aircraft that appealing besides just the "good DCS trainer" aspect. I believe that despite being a simulator already, DCS has room for an aircraft progression since many players are new and others have glaring holes in their skills. Personally the Gazelle was much easier to pick up than Kamov, it's the complex avionics and many switches that can make a bewildering experience to a new player. The Mig-15 is even more simple and it's like a high-speed jet trainer with no avionics between you and awesome combat experiences. I really wonder why it doesn't get recommended to new players more.

 

Also what do you think of the Sabre? Not as capable as the F5, but would be perhaps more similar to the L-39ZA, except for higher speed and perhaps more capacity in guns-only dogfights?

 

The available campaigns and multiplayer missions could be an important factor. I gather some of the Red Flag campaigns are top-notch and a good pick if you're interested to learn about tactical and operational use of the aircraft involved.

 

I should add that I have the Hornet Viggen Harrier A-10A Mig-15 Ka-50. The Hornet looks like it would already be a very capable AG platform in the short to mid term future, and systems probably are very similar to the A-10C.

 

Sad thing about the Hawk, it's a very capable plane in the air. In DCS Finland the Hornet is an incredible craze but A-10C is a very good second. It's going to be interesting to see how the F-14 stirs up things as there is definite interest in its unique aspects and a bunch of people already received it as tournament prizes. L-39ZA sees some marginal attention (Finland never operated it) but if there is a good discussion you see many Mig-15 enthusiasts come out of the closet... might already be some of my doing :music_whistling:

 

Yeah. To end with a note from Brian's Life, besides just

 

smörgåsbord of smart stand-off weapons

highly advanced targeting avionics

interesting airframe

unusual survivability

long loiter time

comprehensive countermeasures

maneuverability

popularity in AG missions

BRRRRT

 

what does the A-10C really have going for it? :pilotfly:


Edited by Varis

SA-342 Ka-50 Mi-8 AJS-37 F-18 M2000C AV-8B-N/A Mig-15bis CA --- How to learn DCS

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You'll get a lot more for your money and you won't grow out of it in a week.

 

So what about us who grew out of the Hog and fly the ZA now because it's more fun? Except getting called a**holes for our choice, of course?

 

No, as I said in this thread already, the Hog is obviously a more capable CAS AC per se and no-one in their right mind claims otherwise. But getting up close and personal with the ZA is more fun still ;)

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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I've flown the L39 a bit, but I still love the F5 to pieces. It's a bit faster, can carry more ordinance, has CM and RWR, so you get some nice tools, BUT... You still have to do all your bombing the old school way. Pipper depression set for your particular weapon and dive profile.

 

I had lots of fun using the F5 in the A2G range competition hosted a while back.


Edited by Dino Might
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