Taxi with the Spitfire is a PAIN!

Hi.

The Spitfire is not easy to handle. Take off: difficult. Not burning the Engine: tricky. Landing...what the hell..! But the biggest obstacle ist to taxi the Spit.

That you see nothing in front of you.. ok, but the heck is always swinging from side to side. You can do it SLOOOOOOOOW to manage it, but when you are ready to take off, the war is over.

I love the Spitfire. :thumbup: And it´s her credit that i will afford the complete WWII theatre. But i hope ED will make her more comfortable to move on wheels.

It would help if the Pilot could lean more outside on the left, when the door is open. So you could see better forward. And the rudder or the back wheel should center quicklier, when i release the wheelbrake.

You need to remember that not all things can be done in a day. You're flying what is in effect a prototype of the original. Some aspects are as they should be and others are either not yet implemented or just plain not right. That is what early access is all about. The last update fixed a lot for the Spit but there still remains the control input forces for the rudder which is why you have unusual difficulty in taxi and landing routines, as there is insufficient control authority coded in for the rudder control surface at the moment.

Patience, as all will be alright on the night. I am enjoying flying the Spit as she is and I know that she will only get better as her control surfaces become harmonised in future updates.

After several hours with the spit, i flew the Mustang. It was not more the "tricky" horse.

Flying the mustang was so easy now. And landing is a pleasure now. It´s the same plane, but after struggeling with the Spitfire my mind has chanced dramaticaly.

After several hours with the spit, i flew the Mustang. It was not more the "tricky" horse.

Flying the mustang was so easy now. And landing is a pleasure now. It´s the same plane, but after struggeling with the Spitfire my mind has chanced dramaticaly.

That's exactly how I felt when getting back into Huey after learning to fly the Gazelle. :D

Learning a new plane takes time and practice, it's not something you can do in one evening. :)

Driving an S-course with the spitfire is difficult at the moment, cause the back wheel isn´t centering qickly enough. I am moving her like a drunk.

You can make the Spit more docile on the ground(or rather make the rudder seem more effective) by dragging the brakes all the time.

Set your brakes up on a slider or trim wheel (an axis) so you can have them on a certain amount all the time. Near 4 on the brakes indicator is about right.

It will taxi and especially land much easier.

I ´ll try it.

Will the wheelbrakes not overheat after a while? :huh:

You don't need any special tricks to taxi the Spitfire, and you definitely shouldn't apply the brakes all the time.

It is a tail dragger, and that brings with it inherent instability. Understanding why it always wants to swing round will make the issue far easier to control.

Basically, there is a centre of gravity well behind the main undercarriage which means it wants to travel with the tail facing forwards. As a result, you have to stay on top of that tendency, and there are no short cuts to achieving that. You just have to make sure the tail stays on, or close to the centre line. Every time you make a turn, the tail will want to overtake the nose, so you need to compensate. Also, torque adds to the equation, so turning with the engine torque will result in a faster, more severe turn, and turning away from it, the torque will want to stop the turn happening altogether.

Knowing how the plane will react to inputs will make controlling the aircraft simpler, easier, and eventually it'll only do what you want it to do.

Dragging the brakes is not the answer.

You don't need any special tricks to taxi the Spitfire, and you definitely shouldn't apply the brakes all the time.

 

Indeed - practice, practice, practice.

I have over 20 hours in the Spit now and finally have got to where ( at least majority of time ) I make some very smooth takeoffs and landings with nice straight rollouts.

But it took me a lot of time and perseverance to get there. But I still flub it up occasionally.

Practice is the key. As you said.

Take off ist no more a problem.

Not overheating the engine in dogfight is manageable.

Landing ist mostly clean. Sometime i am strafing the runway with the wingtip.

....and in the far future i will be able to taxi her nicely. I hope so.

After a turn on the ground i have to break the wheel in short clicks to get her

straight again. If i counter her with rudder only, she ever swing over the point. Somtimes i circle just around my axis.

Practice is the key. As you said.

 

Take off ist no more a problem.

Not overheating the engine in dogfight is manageable.

Landing ist mostly clean. Sometime i am strafing the runway with the wingtip.

 

....and in the far future i will be able to taxi her nicely. I hope so.

 

After a turn on the ground i have to break the wheel in short clicks to get her

straight again. If i counter her with rudder only, she ever swing over the point. Somtimes i circle just around my axis.

From where you are now....it only gets easier. If you want a real eye opener....try and take off in the 109. The spitfire is a piece of cake next to that plane.

I've done 3 nights with the spitfire and am only just getting the hang of take off & taxi manoeuvres. They're tricky, but very addictive to learn and I'm glad it's providing me with a sharp learning curve.

use the rudder T/O assist in special options for the spitfire and gradually reduce them as you get better.

 

Actually, I would have to disagree with this suggestion. Turn off ALL take off & rudder assists now! They are implemented horribly in DCS, and cause more problems than they solve. I had terrible problems with the Mustang on take-off way back when I was learning how to fly it, turning the assists off helped immensely. Same thing with the Spit.

I think the Take Off assist is a good way to help people through the Early Access period when control inputs are only partially developed in the flight model for the aircraft concerned. Once you're off the ground then you're on your own anyway. Especially for inexperienced virtual pilots attempting to get into a beta FM aircraft such assists as rudder and T/O are a benefit.

Clearly they don't teach you the right things that you need to develop to take off in that aircraft but then again we don't have that aircraft yet to take off in. When we have the full FM, it is certainly the time to turn everything off and learn the right way.

I don't know about that. I just know that they don't work! In my case I was constantly crashing on Take Off and I couldn't figure out why. Turned off T/O assits, and suddenly it all clicked into place.

They don't work as advertised, Im sorry to say. Maybe they are meant for people who don't have proper rudder pedals...

As for the FM, it is very far advanced and the plane behaves as it should on the ground. Yo-Yo (lead FM developer) has mentioned this multiple times now I believe.

I like it , feels more realistic , you cant just sit back and enjoy the view like in the mushy p51 the spit keeps you on your toes on the ground and in the air , love it.

Cheers

Jafa

I don't know about that. I just know that they don't work! In my case I was constantly crashing on Take Off and I couldn't figure out why. Turned off T/O assits, and suddenly it all clicked into place.

 

They don't work as advertised, Im sorry to say. Maybe they are meant for people who don't have proper rudder pedals...

 

As for the FM, it is very far advanced and the plane behaves as it should on the ground. Yo-Yo (lead FM developer) has mentioned this multiple times now I believe.

I remember that he said the control forces inputs are not yet sorted which accounts for the taxi and take off/landing difficulties. These aircraft were designed around the average pilot so he could fly without getting into interminable difficulties through normal flying routines.

Taxiing for example should not include much brake input but that is what is required in this model at the moment. Take off/landing don't allow you to have correct authority in the rudder where it would have been expected.

These issues are quite normal in development phases, we saw the same thing in the 109.

Don't you see aileron movement clipping?

 

Anyway, the only one axis still having no force dependance is the rudder.

 

The elevator has so low forces, that there will be no clipping, exactly as we did for the Mustang.

Is easy taxi if you don't let RPM go above ~1100.

And type - not press and hold - brakes button for do curves (I brake with joy trigger, seems more... "British"). :)

I remember that he said the control forces inputs are not yet sorted which accounts for the taxi and take off/landing difficulties. These aircraft were designed around the average pilot so he could fly without getting into interminable difficulties through normal flying routines.

 

Taxiing for example should not include much brake input but that is what is required in this model at the moment. Take off/landing don't allow you to have correct authority in the rudder where it would have been expected.

 

These issues are quite normal in development phases, we saw the same thing in the 109.

Actually he is not talking about rudder authority, just force clipping. I.E. the rudder deflects the same amount at high speed as it does at low speed. This issue doesn't affect ground handling.

If you think the FM is finished more or less, then you're very much mistaken. There is still more development to go and the current behaviour does certainly not match that of the many pilots who write in detail about it. That as much as anything else tells me that it's not finished.

It does seem to be considered "more" finished than "less", however, at least that's my impression from various Yo-Yo's posts. As quoted, we only wait for implementation of force clipping at medium to high speeds and that's about it for the key features. It isn't going to affect takeoffs and landings all that much (too slow), not to mention zero influence on taxiing. We might expect FM tweaks, but not big quantitative changes I suppose.

Also, with exception of Mustang with its unique, steerable tailwheel, Spit is actually the second easiest warbird to taxi on the ground, because its very responsive rudder makes the plane controllable even at 1000-1100 RPM with no brake input necessary (unless You allow it to turn too much, obviously). When in unlocked tailwheel mode, It's impossible to do the same in both German planes (or even in the Mustang) which will require the damn differential braking almost all the time.

The main issue you'll have with taxiing will be:

1) Not having the stick hard back

2) Using too much power

3) Not correcting swing early enough

Getting the stick back reduces the directional instability whilst on the ground by forcing load onto the tailwheel. She'll track as straight as a die at low power and with no brake or rudder input using this technique.

If you're using beyond 1050 RPM whilst rolling then you'll be having trouble; sure use 1200 odd to get moving but she'll keep motoring with barely a trickle of boost so once you're at a good walking pace come back to almost idle. Even then you might still need periodic and gentle touches of brake to keep her from getting away from you.

When you do want to turn use the rudder and maybe a touch (and I mean the merest tap) of brake to get the nose moving the way you want then centre it immediately. Then be prepared to go full opposite rudder and feather your brake input to keep the rate of turn under control, because once you get her going that rate of turn WILL accelerate. It is entirely plausible to spend most of a 90 degree turn with full opposite rudder input using the brake to stop it swapping ends. Get used to it.

Watch the video below from the 4:07 mark - see how the rudder inputs come very early to correct turns:

This takes practise but does become second nature.

"1) Not having the stick hard back"

For me. I tried pulling the stick back with the Spitfire when I first got it. I read that it locks the tail wheel like it does in some of the other WWII aircraft. If it is actually implemented in the Spitfire, I cannot feel it. Nor can the literally dozens of guys I see whipping it all over the taxiways in servers.

I maneuver it around on the ground just fine now and really haven't felt much use for the tail lock anyway after I got use to it's ground handling.

I read that it locks the tail wheel like it does in some of the other WWII aircraft. If it is actually implemented in the Spitfire, I cannot feel it.

Hi Zim,

There is no tail wheel lock on the Spit; the effect of pulling the stick hard back is to use the propwash over the elevators to apply pressure to the tailwheel; the geometry of the tailwheel and it's supporting strut results in a tendency to self correct under this condition.

It's a common technique used in many tailwheel aeroplanes that do not benefit from having a lockable tailwheel.