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Old 05-13-2020, 11:10 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Pman View Post
It is if you read the VEAO statement carefully. The new contract was the tipping point that made the decision to walk away, the contract wasn't a result of VEAO walking away.
Okay, need to read their statement again, as it was already very very vague to begin with. And IIRC ED own statement was that after VEAO decided to walk away, they made an offer to acquire the licensing from VEAO to maintain it. But VEAO didn't agree to that and so on ED didn't get the rights for it, and so on after that ED wanted to make sure that doesn't happen anymore that 3rd party studio can walk away with the money and leave unsupported module hanging to ED customers, that they changed the agreement with everyone else.

https://stormbirds.blog/2018/11/25/v...d-development/

So from ED part, it is completely opposite, they say straight that nothing changed in licensing with VEAO and hawk, and it was so on VEAO own decision to walk away and not support Hawk anymore like ED hoped for.

And anyone who remembers the VEAO development manners, they first said that they release the SFM hawk and then the PFM hawk will cost extra as update later on. Then they decided to release the PFM free to Hawk owners but that was after long time without major updates to it. People were really off by its "on the rails" kind flying etc and waiting to get to buy the PFM version. Then they were happy for the free upgrade. For a while everything looked promising, but then the development stalled. Textures were added but it was so seriously bad that performance was just awful, completely unplayable for many.
And after longer period of unplayable status, VEAO walked away, as IIRC they had even serious developer team conflicts (similar to Leatherneck situation on MiG-21Bis).

The whole Hawk was dropped on ED toes as wet towel and they couldn't do anything else for it than hope VEAO would maintain it. But it didn't happen.

And if you now would think about it, as ED has changed the agreement with the others so everyone else has this same clause that if 3rd party studio walks away, that ED gains the licensing:

1) Why has not anyone else walked away because of that? Like ED is not gaining higher share from the profit with it!

2) If VEAO got negative feelings about that they would need to share/give the license if they walk away from DCS, then why did they walk away instead continue supporting it for profits?

What is known is that every module requires here and there some changed when DCS gets updated. A normal life of software development when you are tied to someone else platform.
And it wouldn't be nice thing to do if you didn't get much profits in first place (for whatever reasons) and then you still need to spend time (= money) to chase the development of the platform. So what would you do in such case if you are bleeding money without profits? You stop it. You simply pack your case and you wave hand.... What is a challenge that 3rd party studios need to choose carefully their modules that will generate profit to them for given time and total amount.

Personally I don't care anymore about Hawk because it was so terribly broken in the final supported version. Flying at Mach 6 and up without limits to altitude etc, doesn't matter if it could be added to latest DCS, as it would be just more broken.

It was interesting module, but it just did not work out. Developers knew it, ED knew it. And end is known. Many didn't burn their fingers as it was nothing like if F-14B or F/A-18C would had such a ending, as that would have released a hell....
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Old 05-16-2020, 01:14 AM   #32
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Hmm, can't help but notice that Pman hasn't come up with a response after two days. Probably going to be a case of he said/she said, but I think those of us were around at the know the truth.
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Old 05-16-2020, 03:38 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cichlidfan View Post
Hmm, can't help but notice that Pman hasn't come up with a response after two days. Probably going to be a case of he said/she said, but I think those of us were around at the know the truth.
You want me to pull out 18 month old emails? I can do, but what will it achieve?

Not a lot - and tbh I gave up caring a long time ago - I was just on the forum as someone pointed it out to me

Have fun and be safe in the lockdown everyone.
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Old 05-17-2020, 01:42 PM   #34
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To the people picking fights with Pman, just bear in mind that Ells was the founder and majority shareholder of the company, effectively the man in control, and he was responsible for the majority of the Hawk development cycle.


With that in mind, you may want to adjust your sights. At least Pman's not vanished into the night.
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Old 05-17-2020, 04:10 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzles View Post
To the people picking fights with Pman, just bear in mind that Ells was the founder and majority shareholder of the company, effectively the man in control, and he was responsible for the majority of the Hawk development cycle.


With that in mind, you may want to adjust your sights. At least Pman's not vanished into the night.
It was not intended as a personal attack and if it was seen that way then I apologize. You are also correct that Ells is the most responsible for this mess although I have a feeling that certain people pushed him into putting more on his plate than he was capable of dealing with. In the end, it is what it is and it is unfixable.
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Old 06-08-2020, 03:42 PM   #36
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Why would they choose the route of not giving up the files to ED? I mean... I assume there were protections in place from ED where they wouldn't then just turn around and release the plane themselves to cut out the dev... or other fun crap like that...

I know China, in manufacturing, often requires the company that their contracting manufacturing with to hand over all files and data required to build whatever they're building... then they sell that to other chinese companies (that they also own) to build whatever it is... But that's not really a thing here so...



That doesn't make sense to me.

I feel like there's more than meets the eye here.
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Old 06-08-2020, 03:57 PM   #37
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Old 06-08-2020, 06:26 PM   #38
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Clearly... Kinda .

I'm curious though.

What drove their decision to take their ball and go home, likely knowing what the political ramifications would be?

Did they try to bluff ED and ED called them on it so they had no choice but to go home? Why would they even make the attempt?

Did they have specific reason to mis-trust ED and what they might do with the source files? That seems unlikely...

Did they have something to hide that would have been uncovered if they handed over the files to ED?

I'm just curious.
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Old 06-08-2020, 06:47 PM   #39
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This is way off topic for 2.5.3 or continued limited Hawk support we were allowed, closing this now.
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