Missing F-14 changelog from today's hotfix

Any update on when this will happen? It's now more than half a year since you guys were damn close to release the new guidance. I know it depends on ED, but it's really frustrating to have to wait for such an important feature without any insight on the progress :(

We're currently retesting it, but it still does not work as it should. Were getting what seems like a mix of the old and the new API atm, which we are currently investigating. Unfortunately we cannot set the pace in this particular matter, but have to rely on ED. The good thing is that it has positive outfall surrounding the issue, like the aim120 getting better and so on. Fixing the guidance for all missiles is anything but easy, hence ED has my fullest understanding if it takes them time. Neither of us are looking for a workaround or temporary quick fix, but fundamental improvement. :)

However their seeker heads are of very similar power irl, too, so chaff resistance between the C and the aim120 is more or less the same. The in game ccm values come from ED, not us.

As an AIM-120A (As Heatblur stated in their interview with ralfidude, you can find it on his channel) or B makes sense, that would be a coefficient of 0.06 for a B and a bit higher for the 120A. Its currently 0.04 in the game, as the ED 2000-2001 120C5. Im assuming that is to be looked into before next update, same as the 54A having this same coefficient.

The always active bug seems gone now

When fired in TWS Auto with the F-14 going cold right away, all AIM-54 versions still keep correcting perfectly with no support required, although they do not loft then. If thats what you mean by "the always active bug".

We want the Tomcat to be good for both sides, those who fly it and those who fight it.

Thank you, there has been some progress there, like the now much more reasonable damage model, but its still a long way.

From the perspective of us "who fight it", the next important fix after that the missiles is jamming and how it interacts with the F-14 radar. The radar itself seems to be modelled very well in an environment thats clear of any ECM or chaff. But simply due to how old the radar is, jamming and especially chaff should affect combat with it quite a bit.

2 examples:

- Initial long range engagement. With modelled jamming and it denying TWS to an extent and it being able to break locks would change the rules, even if it became entirely ineffective within 40 miles.

- Hiding from radar and breaking AIM-54 support with chaff. Currently the F-14 can turn off its filter and pick up/lock any aircraft within range (competent RIO assumed), unless it is cold at a higher speed. With the notching filter turned off or in pulse mode, chaff should be visible, this obviously goes for other radars too, although it is somewhat translated into DCS through the bad chaff rejection of SARH missiles according to ED.

This would change the rules in many situations, like over the water where the F-14 radar is currently entirely undefeatable within range apart from picking up boats sometimes and the other example mentioned above.

As an AIM-120A (As Heatblur stated in their interview with ralfidude, you can find it on his channel) or B makes sense, that would be a coefficient of 0.06 for a B and a bit higher for the 120A. Its currently 0.04 in the game, as the ED 2000-2001 120C5. Im assuming that is to be looked into before next update, same as the 54A having this same coefficient.

 

 

 

When fired in TWS Auto with the F-14 going cold right away, all AIM-54 versions still keep correcting perfectly with no support required, although they do not loft then. If thats what you mean by "the always active bug".

 

 

 

Thank you, there has been some progress there, like the now much more reasonable damage model, but its still a long way.

 

From the perspective of us "who fight it", the next important fix after that the missiles is jamming and how it interacts with the F-14 radar. The radar itself seems to be modelled very well in an environment thats clear of any ECM or chaff. But simply due to how old the radar is, jamming and especially chaff should affect combat with it quite a bit.

 

2 examples:

 

- Initial long range engagement. With modelled jamming and it denying TWS to an extent and it being able to break locks would change the rules, even if it became entirely ineffective within 40 miles.

 

- Hiding from radar and breaking AIM-54 support with chaff. Currently the F-14 can turn off its filter and pick up/lock any aircraft within range (competent RIO assumed), unless it is cold at a higher speed. With the notching filter turned off or in pulse mode, chaff should be visible, this obviously goes for other radars too, although it is somewhat translated into DCS through the bad chaff rejection of SARH missiles according to ED.

This would change the rules in many situations, like over the water where the F-14 radar is currently entirely undefeatable within range apart from picking up boats sometimes and the other example mentioned above.

Those are some very good points, Maximus, thank you for the constructive input.

Most of this is on the list anyway, the chaff values we need to look in to, because it is possible something has changed since Ralfi's interview, which was a long time ago. So far the value has been set to the previous value of the aim120c, with the As being weaker ofc. We need to backtrack our findings and adjust the values accordingly, which will be done. I cannot say if the C will be on par with the aim120c or b value though. The As will be less resistant. For now we just chose the correlation to the previous equivalent as an interim measure to fix their crazy chaff behavior (since DCS changed in this regard, hence also the aim120s got new values. Before the fix it was set to a whooping 0.5, which is 12.5x more than the current value.)

Jamming is on the list, however please know that this will be always a limited feature in DCS, even after implementation. But I totally get what you mean, and I find it equally important.

Another thing to mention is that the MLC PD clutter has been fixed 2 patches ago, means if you turn off the filter now, you will get a whole lot of ghost contacts and it will generally become such a mess that even skilled RIOs won't be of much help. It's not supposed to be turned off (except for few situations) and imo it is appropriately punishing now.

As for chaff being visible on radar: this should be for all aircaft like that, not only the F-14. But chaff in DCS is like jamming a limited feature. So I am not sure that this is something we will spend time on, until DCS in general makes adjustments towards a more realistic implementation of chaff and radar interaction across the board. I definitely agree that it would be a nice to have though, (it is also cool to see happen on the radar).

We're currently retesting it, but it still does not work as it should. Were getting what seems like a mix of the old and the new API atm, which we are currently investigating. Unfortunately we cannot set the pace in this particular matter, but have to rely on ED. The good thing is that it has positive outfall surrounding the issue, like the aim120 getting better and so on. Fixing the guidance for all missiles is anything but easy, hence ED has my fullest understanding if it takes them time. Neither of us are looking for a workaround or temporary quick fix, but fundamental improvement. :)

Thanks a lot! It might suprise you, but that's actually the exact kind of information I was missing in those past months. :thumbup:

Just a small glimpse on what is going on behind the scenes makes the wait so much easier :)

14 SAM hits, plane undamaged.

Because it basically has almost no hitboxes, and the hitboxes that do exist are kept very small ?

 

14 SAM hits, plane undamaged.

 

Because it basically has almost no hitboxes, and the hitboxes that do exist are kept very small ?

I've flown hundreds of hours with F-14 and got hit with tons of SAM's and almost every hit does damage, most of the time severe damage. I don't know how the hell they got 14 hits.

Still, I don't say that the current damage model is good. Far from it. Death spin sucks and most of the external damage is poor.

because it's not true

You can see in the video that this thing has almost no hitboxes .

You say "ALMOST" every hit goes damage. That is extremely wrong in itself, if you get hit they should do damage.

And next would be, how much damage do they actually do ?

Probably far less than on any other aircraft.

TOgtj00Rp8s

You can see in the video that this thing has almost no hitboxes .

 

You say "ALMOST" every hit goes damage. That is extremely wrong in itself, if you get hit they should do damage.

And next would be, how much damage do they actually do ?

Probably far less than on any other aircraft.

 

TOgtj00Rp8s

Maybe in the interim you could learn to fly the indestructible f-14 and leave The f-Iphone on the tarmac? That way You never get shot down. Every plane is available to everyone fyi...

“If you want to fire, swipe right.....”

For the record I should add that Im zero for 21 54 shots inside of 30nm (In MP) and been smoked by the F-iphone every time. Ya know what? I’m still A man and not shunned so relax!

__________________

FATAL : "Summary - Tomcat limited two Pretend missiles per aircraft for both Lead and Coal leagues. All other Missile types and aircraft are Pretend as well .

What you see in those videos are external damage that is WIP, its very basic now yes. BUT, all or nearly all internal system of the aircraft from engine to intercom can get damaged.

Almost every bullet hit will be felt by the crew you can be sure about that. It may not be visible from the outside, but I can tell you from my experience that if you get hit by a AAA or a missile anywhere you are out of the fight.

The flight characteristic will degrade (holding full lateral stick deflection for 20min just to eject in the grove behind carrier sucks), nav systems wont work (finding the ship when blind is no fun at all and at night you might as well eject), you will leak fuel/hydraulics, loosing afterburner on engine in BFM due to bullet hit is not fun (burner on one engine only in BFM tends not to end up well if you dont notice it), not being able to talk to rio or wingman will mess up your day.

If you expect the jet to fall apart on every single hit you will be disappointed, at least for now, but dont for one second think that F-14 is invincible. If you dont belive it go try it.

oh no ... "not being able to talk to wingman" after getting hit by a rocket.

Meanwhile the rest of us just explode in a ball of fire.

oh no ... "not being able to talk to wingman" after getting hit by a rocket.

Meanwhile the rest of us just explode in a ball of fire.

Are you sure it’s not all the other planes that are broken?

yeah sure buddy

oh no ... "not being able to talk to wingman" after getting hit by a rocket.

Meanwhile the rest of us just explode in a ball of fire.

Then I would suggest you go complain at their part of the forum, because reality is not a holywood movie and real aircraft just dont explode in a ball of fire like in movies every single time.

You seem to have some misguided preception about it.

There is plenty of examples of aircraft getting hit by AAA/missiles and pilots talking about how they could limp back to base or back behind the FLOT line to eject with their damaged aircrafts.

As for visual representation of damage for F-14, its now very basic. Its been said that its still WIP, so just wait for it to be done.

The Mig-29 and 21 can also tank absurd amounts of gunfire. External damage models in DCS are all wonky across the board. I've eaten missiles in the Flanker, Fulcrum, F15 and Hornet, was heavily degraded and still managed to limp back to base. This really isn't just Tomcat specific, it's a DCS wide thing.

"Still flying, full avionics"... "I'm smoking, but that's it"

 

"Still flying, full avionics"... "I'm smoking, but that's it"

6:40 & 8:40: "No radar avionics"

Any -A news?

Any ANY news?

The 14 missile hits and no damage is most likely a MC issue. Like 1 player (pilot or rio) takes damage but the other doesnt. I haven't seen that in combination with Jester yet, in which case I would point towards desync and netcode. I've seen it like 3 times in total, and each time 1 of the crew had a rather unstable connection and high ping. Not sure how it was in the GR vid.

The hitboxes are there btw, you only do not see much of external damage atm. External damage is basically just eye candy and irrelevant. What is relevant the internal damage, loss of flight control etc etc... On the internal damage model it is very complete. On the external damage model it is still WIP. But overall the DM needs tweaking, which we are also working on atm (in particular we are trying to get rid of the constant death roll, but no promises for now).

External DM is not a small task on our side, because of the immense effort required from the art department. With our textures etc, it is not a quick job to create 3 different wing types (as in where it was broken) and so on and so forth. Thank you for your kind understanding.

External damage is basically just eye candy and irrelevant. What is relevant the internal damage, loss of flight control etc etc... On the internal damage model it is very complete. On the external damage model it is still WIP. But overall the DM needs tweaking, which we are also working on atm (in particular we are trying to get rid of the constant death roll, but no promises for now).

 

External DM is not a small task on our side, because of the immense effort required from the art department. With our textures etc, it is not a quick job to create 3 different wing types (as in where it was broken) and so on and so forth. Thank you for your kind understanding.

I would not call it just eye candy. Just by sitting in the cockpit and checking all the control surfaces makes a whole difference if you see damage, like missing stab or finn. To talk about wingman performing check.

I would not call it just eye candy. Just by sitting in the cockpit and checking all the control surfaces makes a whole difference if you see damage, like missing stab or finn. To talk about wingman performing check.

Of course. Which is why stabs can fall off, or you get tracer hits on the flight surfaces, too, etc... What I meant is in the case of total aircraft loss. And personally we find eye candy very important, I think that should be clear by looking at the aircraft. :) Which is why this is something we do tend to improve on of course.

can anyone explain why after the last patch the VDI in some situations doesn't change to night mode and the formation lights and interior lights of the console and instruments doesn't work? thanks.

Hi all, my apologies, for some reason I exptected this hotfix on friday and forgot to add our changelog in time. Here it is for those who missed it, ED was so kind and added it in the meantime to both homepage and forums.

 

 

DCS F-14 Tomcat by Heatblur Simulations

 

• Fixed broken normals on NACA vents on engine nacelles.
  
• Fixed the boxy halo around the afterburners visible at night.
  
• Increased strength of landing (taxi) light.
  
• Corrected countermeasure resistance for AIM-54 missiles.
  

Only the latest version © has the digital seeker , right ? The older versions have analog seekers.

So why is chaff resistance improved for ALL the variants alike ?

Only the latest version © has the digital seeker , right ? The older versions have analog seekers.

 

So why is chaff resistance improved for ALL the variants alike ?

It's a temporary fix, which has very little effect anyway since there is mode code behind the curtain and behind what can be accessed through the game files.