Why the urgency to release modules?

Play the game more, bitch less, imo. Leave market strategy to the relevant people. Don't buy EA if you don't want tovdeal with EA.

:thumbup:

You would think that people know it's early access....

At the very least, even with it being in early access, it should have a damage model at launch if you are going to allow it in MP (there are others who did not opt-in to early access that are affected). If not, then make it single player only, at least until the damage model is complete. All the other missing items are fine for an early access MP capable release. Heck, you could even straight up make it unarmed with no systems. As long as it has a somewhat realistic flight model, damage model, and exterior model, that's fine for MP.

...I said I based my comment on friends who have bought it and stopped using it...

What did they fly something else for a few hours since the module has released four days ago?

You would think that people know it's early access, so at best those videos should be previews, not reviews...

True yes, and I indeed watched the videos with a grain of salt. They should have been titled previews, I agree.

But there is no clear definition of "early access". Nothing prevents you from starting to sell it very early on and call it early acess. Which is fine. It's just that while some might have low expectations when it comes to early acess stuff, others might expect slightly more. There's no right or wrong I think

At the very least, even with it being in early access, it should have a damage model at launch if you are going to allow it in MP (there are others who did not opt-in to early access that are affected). If not, then make it single player only, at least until the damage model is complete. All the other missing items are fine for an early access MP capable release. Heck, you could even straight up make it unarmed with no systems. As long as it has a somewhat realistic flight model, damage model, and exterior model, that's fine for MP.

Ummm. ED don't ''allow'' anything anywhere. That's entirely on the server administrator's shoulders. It only ''has'' what the mission designer/server operator PUT in it.

@Sylosis

At this point, anybody with passing familiarity with the internet should be able to go to the forums and research a product before buying it. It is abundantly clear this thing was launching missing reams of features.

Ummm. ED don't ''allow'' anything anywhere. That's entirely on the server administrator's shoulders. It only ''has'' what the mission designer/server operator PUT in it.

Very true. They only control what they release. Once it's released, servers admin decide.

To attempt to review a module at it's initial "early access" stage is ridiculous. Sure, you can give your "first impression" but its a mistake to attempt a review at this stage. I doubt it was a "money grab" since they've been waiting until now to release it. My guess is that its been released now so the purchasers of the product will act as a test bed to assist in the further development of the product. Plus I would imagine they had a great deal of pressure from the users of DCS World, most of which were probably those who pre-purchased. Of course, I have no way of knowing, its just a guess on my part. Like most people here, I bought it as well but even though its early access I went in knowing it wasn't by any means a completed product and probably won't be for quite some time, like the F/A-18 Hornet.

Ummm. ED don't ''allow'' anything anywhere. That's entirely on the server administrator's shoulders. It only ''has'' what the mission designer/server operator PUT in it.

Yeah, you are correct. My bad

On another note. Didn't ED initially deny the MiG-19 release and send it back to be worked on more? Did Razbam send it for early access approval, or full release approval?

Yeah, you are correct. My bad

 

On another note. Didn't ED initially deny the MiG-19 release and send it back to be worked on more? Did Razbam send it for early access approval, or full release approval?

Early Access approval, state of the module since release makes you wonder what it was like when it was denied...

I have seen a lot of early model but this is the first time it's missing so much of the basic stuff. Not that it won't get better it just a bit very very early release this time. I wonder if they didn't want to have simultaneous release of the jf-17 and f-16 that could cannibalize the same market.

Or did the pressure came from the release date on steam.

But I am surprise to see such a crude flight model , texture, damage model.

I understand about missing feature but even the f18,f14 wasn't lacking as much in that department.

I cant help to think there was a timing factor at play for this release.

If they release it, people bitch.

If they don't release it, people bitch.

 

Play the game more, bitch less, imo. Leave market strategy to the relevant people. Don't buy EA if you don't want tovdeal with EA.

DING DING!! Couldn't agree more!!

To attempt to review a module at it's initial "early access" stage is ridiculous. Sure, you can give your "first impression" but its a mistake to attempt a review at this stage. I doubt it was a "money grab" since they've been waiting until now to release it. My guess is that its been released now so the purchasers of the product will act as a test bed to assist in the further development of the product. Plus I would imagine they had a great deal of pressure from the users of DCS World, most of which were probably those who pre-purchased. Of course, I have no way of knowing, its just a guess on my part. Like most people here, I bought it as well but even though its early access I went in knowing it wasn't by any means a completed product and probably won't be for quite some time, like the F/A-18 Hornet.

This is partially my bad, as I am the one who said "YouTube Reviews". I don't even think they were all titled "reviews". First impressions is more relevant.

And, I'm not really debating if one should buy the F-16 or not. It might have seen like it, but I'm just discussing the business model.

As somebody else pointed out, how much can you stretch the concept. I'm sure it does help them a lot in the development phase. But for sure there are disadvantages to that kind of operation

 

Is it only a financial thing? Like purely cash flow generation, to help finance the rest of the development?

Dude it's a beta test thing. Don't play Open Beta Test if you don't like "incomplete modules".

This sort of thing has done with the vast majority of games and other software for the past 30 years or so I've been using personal computers. I know because I've participated in quite a few of them over the years.

Dude it's a beta test thing. Don't play Open Beta Test if you don't like "incomplete modules".

 

 

This sort of thing has done with the vast majority of games and other software for the past 30 years or so I've been using personal computers. I know because I've participated in quite a few of them over the years.

Don't know why you guys seems so butt-hurt over it. In the end I will table the f16 for a few month let it mature a bit. I still feel they lowered the bar.

and your 30 years experience well you should have seen a progression of software quality over 30 years :P

Early Access approval, state of the module since release makes you wonder what it was like when it was denied...

Question then becomes: If a third-party, not ED, was doing the 16 would it have gotten early access approval in its current state?

Question then becomes: If a third-party, not ED, was doing the 16 would it have gotten early access approval in its current state?

That is a great question

Really? Well people are dumber than I thought. Why would you want to spend 60$ on something 40% complete (random number, no need to panic), instead of waiting 6 to 12 months so spend the same amount of money for a compete product?

To play with an EARLY RELEASE of the module and help BETA TEST it maybe? It's what people do. I for one am perfectly happy that they released the Viper when they did and as it is.

Don't play Open Beta if you don't like it.

An EA release amounts to "proof of life" as to display the project isn't vaporware. I'm personally completely against the whole pre-order culture in games lately. Pre-ordering software is stupid because its something you do with a physical item in danger of their being a shortage of (that you for reason must have day 1). I can give ED a soft pass in not being backed by a huge publisher, but I still want product in "hand" within a time frame close to relinquishing funds from said hand. I can appreciate the associated discount on buying early, but shooting up to the full asking price just by being able to touch it is a bit ridiculous when its no where near complete.

To play with an EARLY RELEASE of the module and help BETA TEST it maybe? It's what people do. I for one am perfectly happy that they released the Viper when they did and as it is.

 

 

Don't play Open Beta if you don't like it.

but I'm sorry using the Word Beta is completely wrong in this context.

It's an Alpha.

Beta refers to the phase in software development between the alpha phase and the release candidate phase. Beta software is generally considered "complete" by the developer but still not ready for general use due to a lack of testing "in the wild."

Alpha software is computer software that is still in the early testing phase. The "alpha phase" of software development follows the early programming and design stages, but precedes the "beta phase" in which the software closely resembles the final version.

Remember Debate is healthy none of us is looking forward ed failing we all like ED here we just have different opinion on what quality as a beta software. Clearly the f16 is a much earlier stage then beta at this point not having it's basic component completed or coded.

Maybe they should keep an Alpha Branch

The shrill, whining, vocal minority of perpetually dissatisfied complainers that can apply their crap to any subject with just enough information to validate the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

Indeed.

FYI: "In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people mistakenly assess their cognitive ability as greater than it is."

Dunning–Kruger is widespread and pervasive in our modern society and has even penetrated the upper reaches of the U.S. government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

In the end I will table the f16 for a few month let it mature a bit. I still feel they lowered the bar.

And that's exactly how open beta test should be treated. Play with it a little, find some bugs/problems, report them, wait for fixes/patches, test some more,

etc. etc.

And your 30 years experience well you should have seen a progression of software quality over 30 years

I have.

but I'm sorry using the Word Beta is completely wrong in this context.

It's an Alpha.

Having participated in dozens of both alpha and beta tests of various games and other software it's my opinion that DCS F-16 Viper is well past the alpha stage.

Look at the F/A-18. Is it finished? No. Are they still adding stuff to that module? Yes. Is it in open beta? Yes. Is it also included in the "stable" releases? Yes. Is it fun as hell to play with? Yes.

Nobody is making anyone use the Viper. Nobody is saying that it's "done" or "complete". If you do use it and complain about it, that's your bad.

....

The only thing I fear, as someone who grew up in a family with business men, knowing how things financially work is the rubber band effect. The more you bascally borrow from the future, the harder it gets to pay it all back one day.

 

Let's hope ED and Nick Grey know this old law of economics and don't stretch the rubber band further than it wants to.

This has crossed my mind as well.

Having participated in dozens of both alpha and beta tests of various games and other software it's my opinion that DCS F-16 Viper is well past the alpha stage.

 

 

Look at the F/A-18. Is it finished? No. Are they still adding stuff to that module? Yes. Is it in open beta? Yes. Is it also included in the "stable" releases? Yes. Is it fun as hell to play with? Yes.

 

 

 

Nobody is making anyone use the Viper. Nobody is saying that it's "done" or "complete". If you do use it and complain about it, that's your bad.

I have the f18 too and even at early release it wasnt as alpha as the f16

Really? Well people are dumber than I thought. Why would you want to spend 60$ on something 40% complete (random number, no need to panic), instead of waiting 6 to 12 months so spend the same amount of money for a compete product?

 

1) In pre-order you get -20% off the price.

2) the full price will be there at least a year, so you are not getting it at same price in 6-12 months.

3) you get to participate the development, discuss, test and play it. Every update can be small Christmas.

4) you can have a life and you want to spend the few valuable moments to learn new module, and receiving new capabilities in updates makes it very easy to learn new just released feature.