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Hornet vs JF17


hanab

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Hi,

 

Following the release of the JF17, i’ve got the impression that it has many more functional systems than the hornet (A / G radar, TGP finished). Also I wonder if it's worth buying it knowing that I already have the hornet. What are the advantages of F / A 18C over JF 17 at the moment of development and when it will be finished?

 

Thanks

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hornet > JF: Fuel is a pretty big one, don't get very much loiter time in the JF-17 without tanks. Aerial refueling is another - it may come later to the JF but not yet. Same for helmet mounted display and the AIM-9X to go with it. The radar is quite a bit better. Raw top speed is probably better.

 

JF > hornet: That being said, the JF is definitely a cool and very different plane from the American fighters. The missile warning system is better in the JF. Has working AG radar now. Can carry 64 laser guided rockets (like SU-25T vikhr). Can probably get longer range kills at maximum with SD-10 than with the 120C. Maneuverability at slow speeds I think is better, maybe in general but I'm not sure (and depends on stores/weights).


Edited by slikbaz
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hornet > JF: Fuel is a pretty big one, don't get very much loiter time in the JF-17 without tanks.

 

If your loadout is not too draggy and you keep her out of burner you are as good as a 18. Plus you don't munch through your fuel as fast in AB in the thunder subjectively.

 

 

I currently prefer the 17... she feels not as slow and underpowered

 

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I think the JF-17 looks really cool. I want it. It reminds me of the Gripen cockpit with the big MFD's. But I'm really struggling to be proficient today in any module. I like to fly the F-14, 16, 18 / M-2000, Harrier and damn it's hard to be proficient in all modules. The only reason I haven't bought the JF-17 yet. It's inevitable though. I will buy it sooner or later.

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I think the JF-17 looks really cool. I want it. It reminds me of the Gripen cockpit with the big MFD's. But I'm really struggling to be proficient today in any module. I like to fly the F-14, 16, 18 / M-2000, Harrier and damn it's hard to be proficient in all modules. The only reason I haven't bought the JF-17 yet. It's inevitable though. I will buy it sooner or later.

 

Its funny you mention that, as I've recalled in another thread that the JF-17's AI performance in BFM (nimble turns; very good sustained turn rate; high energy levels also in vertical, etc) do remind me the Gripen AI aircraft from another old sim.

 

Regarding BFM I've tried several aircraft against the JF-17 AI, in the link below.

 

My doubt persist however; which would be the most "equitable" way of comparing BFM performance between 2 different aircraft:

- giving both the same percentage ( % ) of fuel - which can greatly differ the fuel quantity from aircraft to aircraft;

- or the exact same fuel quantity ( lbs ) for both ?

 

Example:

- giving both a MiG-29 and JF-17, 50% internal fuel, one will feel increased difficulty while BFM in the MiG;

- giving both of them some (for instance) 3500 lbs of fuel, one will notice easier BFM in the MiG.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=257291


Edited by Top Jockey

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I'm going to refrain from comparing the completion states of the modules, since I don't consider that to be a deciding factor in the long run.

 

Besides the stuff mentioned, one advantage of the Hornet is the extra two fuselage hardpoints, allowing you to take either two extra AAMs (or an AAM and a TGP, eventually). Add the fact that the Hornet's under-wing hardpoints can be used for anything and you can possibly come up with more versatile combinations, for a given task. It can also carry a significantly higher amount of chaff and flares.

 

The JF-17 on the other hand is easily the most modern fighter we have in DCS right now. It features a glass cockpit with ample MFD real estate and a sophisticated avionics suite that offers a series of QOL improvements to the pilot that can increase survivability and aid in navigation.

 

I did some play testing for BFM, which is one aspect that you can currently compare both jets (because BVR performance cannot currently be compared, due to the state of the Hornet's radar and the underperforming of the AIM-120C or overperforming of the SD-10, whichever is true). I set up a mission of 1v4 against 2 Su-27 and 2 MiG-29S, Excellent AI. I found both jets to be very good at BFM, with the Hornet offering better high AOA authority and overall a more controlled feeling, but I've also been flying the Hornet since it launched, so there's that. The JF-17 did perform excellent as well though and I took down all 4 targets without much difficulty.

 

The weapons selection is fairly similar between the two jets, so I cannot comment much on that. The laser guided rockets are a nice addition to the JF-17's arsenal, that should prove very useful in CAS scenarios, assuming that no SAM/MANPADS threats are present.

 

In the end, I like both, for different reasons. The Hornet has been my go-to since it launched and I suspect that won't change, but I'll be definitely giving some attention to the JF-17 as well, that's for sure.

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I'm going to refrain from comparing the completion states of the modules, since I don't consider that to be a deciding factor in the long run.

 

Besides the stuff mentioned, one advantage of the Hornet is the extra two fuselage hardpoints, allowing you to take either two extra AAMs (or an AAM and a TGP, eventually). Add the fact that the Hornet's under-wing hardpoints can be used for anything and you can possibly come up with more versatile combinations, for a given task. It can also carry a significantly higher amount of chaff and flares.

 

The JF-17 on the other hand is easily the most modern fighter we have in DCS right now. It features a glass cockpit with ample MFD real estate and a sophisticated avionics suite that offers a series of QOL improvements to the pilot that can increase survivability and aid in navigation.

 

I did some play testing for BFM, which is one aspect that you can currently compare both jets (because BVR performance cannot currently be compared, due to the state of the Hornet's radar and the underperforming of the AIM-120C or overperforming of the SD-10, whichever is true). I set up a mission of 1v4 against 2 Su-27 and 2 MiG-29S, Excellent AI. I found both jets to be very good at BFM, with the Hornet offering better high AOA authority and overall a more controlled feeling, but I've also been flying the Hornet since it launched, so there's that. The JF-17 did perform excellent as well though and I took down all 4 targets without much difficulty.

 

The weapons selection is fairly similar between the two jets, so I cannot comment much on that. The laser guided rockets are a nice addition to the JF-17's arsenal, that should prove very useful in CAS scenarios, assuming that no SAM/MANPADS threats are present.

 

In the end, I like both, for different reasons. The Hornet has been my go-to since it launched and I suspect that won't change, but I'll be definitely giving some attention to the JF-17 as well, that's for sure.

 

Harker - excellent assessment. Like you, the Hornet will remain my go to but I do appreciate what the JF-17 brings. We live in good times.

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The Hornet is an American plane. The JF isn't. It's an easy decision for me.

 

+1

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don (callsign Ziptie)

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The Hornet has been a very special aircraft to me for decades . Further , i try to limit the number of aircraft modules to a few i can fly well . Having said all that , the Jeff looks very interesting to me , and Deka should be applauded and supported for bringing a well-finished module to DCS .

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It has more features implemented. If this is completed then that is very disappointing because it is far from bug free or complete in its implementation.

 

Its not. Its still in EA, its just way more complete than most other modules. They are planning on fixing a bunch of bugs and missing things soon, and then adding features like AAR later.

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I'll add a few things having flown the hornet alot and the JF17 alot lately :)

 

Fuel... As long as you stay out of burner its "ok" on the JF17, but its not great range wise. No AAR, and Fuel tanks take up valuable stores space.

 

Stores: Less stations than the hornet, and you realistically aren't carrying Fox3's if you are carrying A/G stores or Tanks (see fuel). Or if you are you aren't going very far with much of an A/G loadout.

 

Pods: The JF17 TGP while I feel is more realistic than the litening, its also "less powerful" harder to get locks, less zoom, it can break tracking etc. (I feel like the litening is just undermodeled or overmodleded) but from a strict gamplay perspective the hornet TGP is the winner. The other thing is that pods take up valuable weapons/fuel space, which on the viper and in the future hornet will be cheek stations, which the JF17 lacks.

 

A/A. Slight advantage with SD10 in BVR, drawback being only 2 TWS targets. Slight disadvantage in WVR since there is no HOBS fox2 on the JF17. Once the hornet gets TWS and the AAMRAM's get "looked at" I'm pretty sure the hornet will be overal better A/A.

 

A/G: Good selection of stores, which work better than some hornet stores, but often limited by TPOD. The laser rockets are great for undefended convoys and "plinking" targets. The GB-6's are nicer than JSOW in the sense there is a SFW version. I think range wise they might be inferior but that could just be a TPOD issue. The ARM's are worse to employ vs HARMs and I think shorter ranged (nothing to back that up, just "feels"). Haven't tried the anti ship missiles yet, but they gotta be better than the harpoon.

 

Overall: That all being said I'm pretty impressed with the JF17. Its a great module and its very complete feeling compared to the hornet and viper, so to me "more fun" to fly right now. The only real drawback is learning how it does things vs the hornet and viper, which is similar but different. I think when all the modules are "complete" they will all be pretty close capability wise. With the main differences being stores/fuel carried.


Edited by Harlikwin

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In A/G, atleast in a completed state, the Hornet wins hands down. It has a big array of toys to play with that give it very good stand-off range. The SLAM-ER will make it the king in that respect.

 

JF17 has the chinese version. MITL missile. I havent used it much.

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In A/G, atleast in a completed state, the Hornet wins hands down. It has a big array of toys to play with that give it very good stand-off range. The SLAM-ER will make it the king in that respect.

 

Flying to a set of coordinates and releasing a slammer-might as well be flying a transport :)

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Flying to a set of coordinates and releasing a slammer-might as well be flying a transport :)

 

Yup. Nothing like flying into a hornets nest of shorads and manpads that your MAWS wont pick up to remind you why weapons like that exist. :)

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Can't land a JF on a carrier.

 

Someone here is gonna prove you wrong :)

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Yup. Nothing like flying into a hornets nest of shorads and manpads that your MAWS wont pick up to remind you why weapons like that exist. :)

 

Oh , no doubt IRL I'd wanna use them as much as possible . But in DCS i prefer to get up close and personal :)

(Well , at least in mav range)

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Oh , no doubt IRL I'd wanna use them as much as possible . But in DCS i prefer to get up close and personal :)

(Well , at least in mav range)

 

I suspect this will be more useful when (if) the dynamic campaign becomes a thing where you are going to want to be using them to take out high threat SAM targets and EW assets before you go in up close and personal.

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