DCS WWII: Europe 1944

Precisely why I don't fly simulated modern combat aircraft. Stick and rudder work and lining up a target in the gun sight is far more rewarding for me than

memorizing hundreds of pages of manuals on systems management. Korea is about as modern as I would ever want to get. Sure there are jets, but it's still

the pilot and his crate vs. another pilot in his crate, not which geek (Bob or Boris) programmed the best ECM suite, or whatever you modern jet jocks call it. EL hates acronyms too...

You should try manual, or even CCIP bombing old school slicks in the A-10C. Its no cake walk and plenty complicated. For all the acronyms, the parameters required for accurate delivery, etc etc, its basically all about hand flying and eyeballing stuff. What does required hard parameters has to happen so quickly that you're not going to use systems to accomplish it, you're using instinct and muscle memory of how to fulfill those parameters.

Far as I can tell A-10 is the most advanced mud wagon that still demands you use skills most WW2 dive bombers would have cultivated.

And @luthier1... please tell me you're doing an Me-109. Dora is nice but its not my bird. Nearly every hour spent in IL-2 for me was in some variant of a 109.

And lastly, I seem to have missed the entire story on the downfall of Maddox games. Can someone give me the short (or long) history of what happened, or at least link me to some place I can get it? Last I remember is CloD coming out and there being some scuttlebutt about bugs and lag and crap.

With Team Fusion working on fixing some of the more egregious bugs it's worth picking up now - you can probably find it for 5-10 euro. They've already released one major patch which addresses some of the flight model issues and are working on another at the moment which will address things like damage modelling, LOD visibility, etc. TF seem to have it tough though as they don't have access to the core files so modding things to fix issues is made a good bit trickier.

The flight model isn't up to DCS standards however it does have a period map, multiple planes, pretty decent FM accuracy and can smoothly handle 100+ players being online which can make for some fun fights. For WW2 online fights it's probably the best option out there at the moment. Next year might be a different story though ;)

Is it September yet? :D

im really looking forward to sept 1st.

im very interested, whether they will release a whole hangar of planes and a map as one package, or if they will release one plane after the other...

here's hoping for the second approach, as it would probably mean, that we'll have something to fly around sooner.

I'm sure they'll release it in bits. The will need a revenue stream to fund them along the way.

Polish Map??

Soviet - German and Polish possibility's.

Like when IL-2 was released, at the time the eastern front was very neglected in the flight sim world. Now its accepted, almost as equal as BOB.

I think if you're going to release a WW2 flight theatre you're best off going for something iconic to boost sales which leaves Western Front, Eastern Front or Pacific. For every 1 person that says they want to fly some obscure plane there's 20 that want to fly the 109F, Spit MkXIV, etc.

I would guess that Luthier would probably be contractually unable to make a direct Eastern Front competitor to BOS for a number of years? Pretty standard in any kind of severance agreement for somebody in his position though I don't know how amicable / sudden the split was so it might not be present.

So if I had to guess I think it's more likely to be either Western Front or Pacific. If going for DCS level fidelity the planes on the Western Front are better documented from a technical standpoint. Proper data on US planes is ok but Japanese planes is pretty hard to come by from what I understand. Also we'll have two Western Front planes with the P51 / FW190 done to DCS level so makes sense to me to add more in there - everybody knows that the 109 and Spit would fly out the door when made to that level.

I think if you're going to release a WW2 flight theatre you're best off going for something iconic to boost sales which leaves Western Front, Eastern Front or Pacific. For every 1 person that says they want to fly some obscure plane there's 20 that want to fly the 109F, Spit MkXIV, etc.

So what you're saying is we shouldn't hold our breaths for a Rangoon map?

So what you're saying is we shouldn't hold our breaths for a Rangoon map?

Yes that and the Aleutian Islands Campaign map might have to be a day 2 release.

I think if you're going to release a WW2 flight theatre you're best off going for something iconic to boost sales which leaves Western Front, Eastern Front or Pacific. For every 1 person that says they want to fly some obscure plane there's 20 that want to fly the 109F, Spit MkXIV, etc.

 

I would tend to disagree three there, as others may as well, considering the PTO is a huge drawcard (provided the necessary and requisite carriers are included) il2 Pacific Fighters was quite popular

 

I would guess that Luthier would probably be contractually unable to make a direct Eastern Front competitor to BOS for a number of years? Pretty standard in any kind of severance agreement for somebody in his position though I don't know how amicable / sudden the split was so it might not be present.

 

Yeah... termination conditions... was there one? if so, it looks like it is past the use by date

 

So if I had to guess I think it's more likely to be either Western Front or Pacific.

 

flight sim history has; going back to the Western Front = disaster

 

If going for DCS level fidelity the planes on the Western Front are better documented from a technical standpoint. Proper data on US planes is ok but Japanese planes is pretty hard to come by from what I understand.

 

There's quite a few PTO planes available in various museums

 

Also we'll have two Western Front planes with the P51 / FW190 done to DCS level so makes sense to me to add more in there - everybody knows that the 109 and Spit would fly out the door when made to that level.

 

It'll have to expand to continue the (which many bang on about) "business model"... Spits, Zeros, Corsairs, etc, etc, carriers, maps (incl buildings, assets, etc) and shipping.

Really... its all speculation until official word arrives, on (scheduled: Sept 1)

To be honest, I'll take any theatre of WW2. They're all great, though I think in many respects The Pacific is if anything the most limiting. It offers massive opportunity for carrier based operations, but a very limited ground environment.

In some ways this is preferable for development. Smaller land bases means less time spent on terrain meshes, but it also means that you're not going to have much variety a lot of the time. It'll be like fighting over Georgia, but even smaller. That is to say, you'll get sick of the terrain faster because there's less of it to explore. The only solution then would be to have many maps of various island chains, which is actually plausible in its own since again less terrain to model means the time taken to make one massive Georgia sized map is slit into making 3 or 4 Pacific maps of equivalent terrain.

At least with a larger land mass you get more variety of environments, and there's nothing limiting the use of carriers, other than their asymmetry with respects to any German operations.

To be honest, a channel crossing map sounds the most exciting. France, Britain, if we're lucky we can dip up into Belgium and the Netherlands, and it would very good indeed if it could encompass the whole of Britain so that we'd have the western approaches too to liven up the area for any anachronistic naval operations, or give us some tasty hunting grounds if the devs happen to throw U-boats at us as valid targets. Lots of stages of the war happened in this area so it would be very easy to play with it for years waiting for another map.

Another good option is a Mediterranean map which would give us two different biomes to fight in. Imagine Malta, Sicily, El Alamein, all possible on a single map.

Its really hard to imagine a bad scenario, though I can think of a few I'd rather see.

I would tend to disagree three there, as others may as well, considering the PTO is a huge drawcard (provided the necessary and requisite carriers are included) il2 Pacific Fighters was quite popular

Don't get me wrong I'd love to see the PTO - my point about obscure was related to the post above where they talked about Polish map. There's no doubt that FM data could be found for US planes like the F4U, P47, etc. Getting accurate FM data for the Japanese planes would be a lot harder. All I was speculating that if RRG are looking to bring a fleshed out theatre to market as quick as possible that it's more likely to be western front given that 2 iconic planes would already exist there, detailed town / bases maps already exist having being made for CloD, etc.

Ideally though what I'd like to see when EDGE comes out is a large east Asia map stretching from Vietnam to the Philippines as this would allow for WW2, Vietnam and modern combat scenarios in DCS World all in the one geographical map (once modified for the time period).

But that's just it... no-one has said anything about getting anything out "as quick as possible", or for that matter, about taking "as long as it takes". Foolish it would be, to have a roadmap containing "release as quick as possible". Impatience caused the what was was not so long ago...

We can wishlist 'til the cows come home... let's see what they come up with, afterall it is their creative energies which will need to be utilised

Dear Santa (luthier1):

I been a good boy so for this september I only want:

-F4U

-Ju87

-bf109

Any of those.

There's eggnog (also Rum and Vodka) and cookies in the kitchen :D

Dear Santa (luthier1):

 

There's eggnog (also Rum and Vodka) and cookies in the kitchen :D

Don't forget 49.99 :)

But that's just it... no-one has said anything about getting anything out "as quick as possible", or for that matter, about taking "as long as it takes". Foolish it would be, to have a roadmap containing "release as quick as possible". Impatience caused the what was was not so long ago...

Of all the things that went wrong with CloD impatience was hardly one of them. When a project is delivered 4+ years late and still full of bugs that's not impatience - that's project scope and management going wrong.

RRG are going to be smaller and presumably operating on a more limited budget than MG had available to them. That usually means cutting your cloth appropriately and looking to remove as many of the "unknown unknowns" from the project scope at the start as, from personal experience in PM, they can really kill you. Without a publisher that can put up with delivery dates getting pushed out again and again RRG will have to be focused on getting the product out to market so they start to get a return on investment as soon as possible (while obviously still being a quality product).

PTO throws up more of these unknown unknows in my opinion and as an initial project I'd probably avoid it. Western / Eastern fronts would be more familiar to RRG though I suspect that Eastern might be out for legal reasons. Western Front isn't the most original by any means but it seems the path of least resistance to me. Release a period map + 109 / Spit + AI bombers and with the Mustang and 190 already there it's pretty much guaranteed to be a winner. Then build on that success from there would be my plan. Anyway all will be revealed on Sept. 1st :) They might have something way more ambitious in mind. I'll definitely be backing their efforts on KS no matter what they have in mind.

 

RRG are going to be smaller and presumably operating on a more limited budget than MG had available to them.....

This, coupled with the fact that the foundation, DCS World, is already provided to them. All they need to be worried about is providing modules.

This is Epic and probably one of the groundbreaking, defining moments in DCS history, make no mistake. One minor hurdle all are waiting to cross is the release of the IG. When that happens, all hell's gonna break loose, in a good way. Personally I'm as happy as a pig in a truffle farm to be around for this - It's gonna be a good one :)

Don't forget 49.99 :)

If he eats the cookies, he doesn't need the 49,99 $ anymore ... :lol:

Of all the things that went wrong with CloD impatience was hardly one of them. When a project is delivered 4+ years late and still full of bugs that's not impatience - that's project scope and management going wrong.

 

RRG are going to be smaller and presumably operating on a more limited budget than MG had available to them. That usually means cutting your cloth appropriately and looking to remove as many of the "unknown unknowns" from the project scope at the start as, from personal experience in PM, they can really kill you. Without a publisher that can put up with delivery dates getting pushed out again and again RRG will have to be focused on getting the product out to market so they start to get a return on investment as soon as possible (while obviously still being a quality product).

 

PTO throws up more of these unknown unknows in my opinion and as an initial project I'd probably avoid it. Western / Eastern fronts would be more familiar to RRG though I suspect that Eastern might be out for legal reasons. Western Front isn't the most original by any means but it seems the path of least resistance to me. Release a period map + 109 / Spit + AI bombers and with the Mustang and 190 already there it's pretty much guaranteed to be a winner. Then build on that success from there would be my plan. Anyway all will be revealed on Sept. 1st :) They might have something way more ambitious in mind. I'll definitely be backing their efforts on KS no matter what they have in mind.

Well... you have your opinion, it doesn't necessarily make it right though :music_whistling: or one which constantly needs to be repeated :huh:

RRG are putting a KS up?

iEDIT KS as mentioned earlier in the thread and accidentally released 'tube video as seen by Sithspawn

Well I guess I'll spout my right / wrong opinions whenever I like cheers. Feel free to skip on over them chief.

Wags said there'll be a KS - presume we'll see all on Sept 1st.

seems we're all having memory lapses this morning... back around page 2, Sith (I'm sure it was you, I could be wrong though) in a could be related sense

Anyways... I'm sure RRG will pick a convincing point to start from and work forward from there. Given success and time we'll all have our wishlist see reality