Mission Ideas

In one of the other threads, somebody conjectured that once the new toys are here (Spitfire and P-47D) Air Quake will start to disappear as the most prevalent Mission on MP servers. I have serious doubts to that, but time will tell.

But what would be a good mission scenario for MP; one that would allow for players to jump in in the middle of the mission and still have fun?

And what about mission that don't allow for jumping in in the middle, like a short 10 minute escort mission?

Would that be accepted and fun?

Would it even be possible?

It would mean that if you joined the server after mission start, you would have to wait up to about 10 minutes, in which time you could only watch, until the mission restarts.

What other kinds of missions would you like to see in MP?

Have also my doubts the Airquake dont dissapear, there 1-2 Mission's in this Style DOG of War as example with Mustangs cover the A-130 and the Germans attack.

Most People disapear because it's boring to climb on 30000 Feet and search for them but i think most common and intressting are going these Event Mission for Weekend.

Under the Week the airquake will stay for sure.

I've considered such an idea for Burning Skies server and as far as I understand scripts it's quite possible to make a matchmaker script which will unpause mission when a desired number of players have taken their slots. However it will take ages for any matchmaker to setup teams considering DCS Multiplayer CCU value. Also, DCS GUI does not allow to explain why the mission is paused and what is being waited for to a newcomer in user-friendly manner. Maybe I'll try someday when Normandy is out, just to check if it will work.

On the other side, it all perfectly fits for weekend events. We've made some in the past and it was much fun:

Have also my doubts the Airquake dont dissapear, there 1-2 Mission's in this Style DOG of War as example with Mustangs cover the A-130 and the Germans attack.

Most People disapear because it's boring to climb on 30000 Feet and search for them but i think most common and intressting are going these Event Mission for Weekend.

Under the Week the airquake will stay for sure.

Give people airspawns.

Air start for both sides.

Allies have a bunch of B-17's flying at 20,000 feet with escorts overhead (non-filled slots controlled by AI).

Axis coming in from some direction, possibly the direction decided randomly, so the Allies don't know exactly from which direction they will be coming.

...

What other kinds of missions would you like to see in MP?

 

 

Ground start - both sides.

Allies have to climb rapidly and vector to intercept their bombers, then escort.

Axis have to climb to an altitude of the their choice (probably above the bombers, eh?), whilst vectoring to intercept - then engage.

 

You know, navigation and all that. :thumbup:

 

If both sides are given the altitude, flight path, and cruising speed of the bombers ("blah, blah... radar says this... blah blah" then the intercepts should be relatively easy to work out before take off.

 

P-51's should be already airborne to simulate that they are flying with the bombers for a while and escorting them. US players should focus on creating defensive formation around the bombers and sending vanguard of airplanes to intercept the Germans before they can form up. Like it was IRL

P-51's should be already airborne to simulate that they are flying with the bombers for a while and escorting them. .... Like it was IRL

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I was envisioning a) a slightly longer mission time (with the added element of not knowing if/when Jerry would be bouncing you), and b) the added complexity of having to find the things you were supposed to be supporting - preferably before they get bounced by said Jerry. You know, like it was In Real Life (IRL).

I'll link an interesting article on the development of the Mustang, that also talks about escort duties. The relevant section to this discussion is on page 24 of the document. Seemingly there were two types of escort mission:

Target Support - which is the escort of the bomber by the fighter only over the target area "for about 15 minutes" (i.e. the game length envisioned by the OP), and

Penetration Support - Long-range escort along the entire bomber path. In this the escorts and bombers met up a considerable distance from the target, and flew together (albeit with the faster fighters flying a "weaving pattern".

For the latter type of bomber support to be *simulated* (remember we a playing a simulation here, folks), with the attendant pilot fatigue and fuel consumption risks, a substantially longer in-game mission time would be required.

(Aircraft, IRL, do not pop in to existence near their target. Being a pilot would be a lot easier if they did. :megalol:)

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA330888

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I was envisioning a) a slightly longer mission time (with the added element of not knowing if/when Jerry would be bouncing you), and b) the added complexity of having to find the things you were supposed to be supporting - preferably before they get bounced by said Jerry. You know, like it was In Real Life (IRL).

 

I'll link an interesting article on the development of the Mustang, that also talks about escort duties. The relevant section to this discussion is on page 24 of the document. Seemingly there were two types of escort mission:

 

Target Support - which is the escort of the bomber by the fighter only over the target area "for about 15 minutes" (i.e. the game length envisioned by the OP), and

 

Penetration Support - Long-range escort along the entire bomber path. In this the escorts and bombers met up a considerable distance from the target, and flew together (albeit with the faster fighters flying a "weaving pattern".

 

 

For the latter type of bomber support to be *simulated* (remember we a playing a simulation here, folks), with the attendant pilot fatigue and fuel consumption risks, a substantially longer in-game mission time would be required.

 

 

(Aircraft, IRL, do not pop in to existence near their target. Being a pilot would be a lot easier if they did. :megalol:)

 

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA330888

I would be interested in this type of mission. Although it would be nice for simpler versions without take-off to be included for escort fighters.

It's often something that is lacking in other simulations of the period. Most of the time you take off close to the bombers, climb to escort or intercept depending on the side your on without any of the strategic implications of reality. Some of those implications, though, won't be much fun when flown repeatedly I don't think.

Climbing to altitude as an escort, for example, seems to me to be sort of redundant, while the finding of the bombers using navigation or friendly ground radar would be challenging and could effect the outcome of the match. Inversely the interception forces could be spread out on several airfields even and have to form up to best overtake the bombers. They would need to start from take-off, as that is not a redundant part of the mission for them IMO.

Another key piece of this would be ground based radar, and radar guiding for the defensive force. How is that piece of the puzzle being solved by ED for the Normandy map? For me this is a very important piece, as the German fighters would have been guided by ground radar for interception and navigation.

As July 1944 was quite active with V-1/2 offensives ( seeing both the first V1 shoot down and the first of many HE111 V-1 air and ground site launches) I am wondering and hopeful that ED will be including the V-1/V-2 and its sites as a strategic target/asset for Normandy mission makers.

I also agree that trains and rail targets will be critical for historicity of missions.

Finally - I'd really like to see the appearance of period radar adapted to the battlefield. Fighter control/MEW/SCR-584 units so that mission makers can build something up to recreate the early normandy CAS activity.

Airquake will always have its place for fighter pilots to practice and get a quick fix; good for intensive and quick training for combat, including gunnery, etc. Also good for comparing aircraft combat performance, pushing things to the limit and perfecting your air-to-air fighting tactics. No need to have a snobbish attitude towards airquake servers IMHO.

However, for me MP servers with more sophisticated maps and missions is more the real deal :joystick: and is what most interests me.

I would love to take off from England in a fighter or fighter bomber with mixed aircraft types taking part in a joint operation to attack targets in France like the railway system, V1 launch sites, radar installations, airfields and army ground units. Flying low level across the English Channel to avoid radar detection and navigating to target, attacking the target, perhaps meeting defensive bandits and then trying to survive and get back across the Channel would be great. To do that with my squad mates on comms with another squad on the same mission, with one squad flying something like Thunderbolts or Typhoons and another squad flying Spitfires, Tempest V or Mustangs would be epic. Such mission could also take place From airfields in France, but I just love the idea of crossing the Channel and back. To fly such missions against Axis AI fighter cover would be OK, but to fly against human pilots on the other side is what it is really all about for me.

Twin engine bomber missions in something like the Mosquito from England to France would also be epic.

I would also like to fly higher level bomber escort missions from England to France as well as fighter sweeps.

Anti-diver (V1) missions in a Tempest V, Spitfire, Mustang or Mosquito would be interesting, but the current problem with air-to-air model visibility may mean that this would not be feasible.

Happy landings,

Talisman

 

 

Ground start - both sides.

Allies have to climb rapidly and vector to intercept their bombers, then escort.

Axis have to climb to an altitude of the their choice (probably above the bombers, eh?), whilst vectoring to intercept - then engage.

 

You know, navigation and all that. :thumbup:

 

If both sides are given the altitude, flight path, and cruising speed of the bombers ("blah, blah... radar says this... blah blah" then the intercepts should be relatively easy to work out before take off.

 

like the german "Jägeransatz" for Bomber hunting

I make a Mod for this with many german radio call`s:

http://filehorst.de/download.php?file=bEIkwolt

and two sample Missions:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/de/files/1969649/

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/de/files/1969636/

please try it and give reporting

Long escort missions in which you take off more or less with the bombers will IMHO never be a big thing in general on public servers. They require planing days in advance to get enough people together, to explain the mission, get them organized within the mission, and once it starts there's little to no chance of anybody else jumping in. I'm not saying they have no place, not at all. But they are a completely different genre from air-quake-type missions, which allow for anybody to jump in at any time.

Again, my question is, what about missions, which allow for players to jump onto the server and take part, without large organizational overhead and long periods of time to get enough people together?

My idea was to cut the long flight to and from the target, by setting up the bombers and escorts to start from fixed or semi-fixed positions--depending on what might be scripted for player or random variations--and flying the "meat" of the mission.

Missions could then have a limited time before ending, determined by the bombers reaching their target and escorts and interceptors breaking off to avoid flak.

My biggest question is, would you, as a player, if you joined the server after the mission had started, be willing to wait 10 to 15 minutes for that mission to end and the next to begin, before being able to actively join in? Of course if you were shot down 3 minutes into the mission, you'd also have to wait 10 minutes until the next mission started to try you luck again.

The advantage would be having a mission which actually pit aircraft against each other in their historical roles and environment, which air-quake really doesn't offer.

like the german "Jägeransatz" for Bomber hunting

 

I make a Mod for this with many german radio call`s:

http://filehorst.de/download.php?file=bEIkwolt

 

and two sample Missions:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/de/files/1969649/

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/de/files/1969636/

 

please try it and give reporting

Has the P-38 mod been fixed? It was broken by the update about 3-4 weeks ago.

Long escort missions in which you take off more or less with the bombers will IMHO never be a big thing in general on public servers. They require planing days in advance to get enough people together, to explain the mission, get them organized within the mission, and once it starts there's little to no chance of anybody else jumping in. I'm not saying they have no place, not at all. But they are a completely different genre from air-quake-type missions, which allow for anybody to jump in at any time.

 

Again, my question is, what about missions, which allow for players to jump onto the server and take part, without large organizational overhead and long periods of time to get enough people together?

 

My idea was to cut the long flight to and from the target, by setting up the bombers and escorts to start from fixed or semi-fixed positions--depending on what might be scripted for player or random variations--and flying the "meat" of the mission.

 

Missions could then have a limited time before ending, determined by the bombers reaching their target and escorts and interceptors breaking off to avoid flak.

 

My biggest question is, would you, as a player, if you joined the server after the mission had started, be willing to wait 10 to 15 minutes for that mission to end and the next to begin, before being able to actively join in? Of course if you were shot down 3 minutes into the mission, you'd also have to wait 10 minutes until the next mission started to try you luck again.

 

The advantage would be having a mission which actually pit aircraft against each other in their historical roles and environment, which air-quake really doesn't offer.

Don't look too far and just recreate what WOL server in BOS was doing for some time now. Ground based targets with a couple of active fields. Done. The team that destroys all the ground targets wins.

Don't look too far and just recreate what WOL server in BOS was doing for some time now. Ground based targets with a couple of active fields. Done. The team that destroys all the ground targets wins.

That's a good recipe for fighter-bombers that have no intention of returning to base. :yawn:

That's a good recipe for fighter-bombers that have no intention of returning to base. :yawn:

If u would play BoS u would know that those that land in their base get more points for their actions.

And even if they want to throw their life away, that's their decision. We are talking open server here, not an event.

If u would play BoS u would know that those that land in their base get more points for their actions.

It works the same way in Rise of Flight.

So, it seems that there is no interest in putting the P-51 into her element. That's kind of sad :(

So, it seems that there is no interest in putting the P-51 into her element. That's kind of sad :(

I wouldn't conclude that from the discussion. But right now DCS doesn't have any WW2 bombers, and the mods for them are a far cry from what I would expect from ED.

So, it seems that there is no interest in putting the P-51 into her element. That's kind of sad :(

You said yourself that bomber escort is too long and too hard to make a typical mission around it, because people will be too late to the party.

High altitude fighting can be done, but we need human bombers, who will have an airspawn and then people will have to climb and destroy them, so the mustangs will have to be there to protect them. As long as it is not ogranic and only mission designer has to fix the mission and their route, so long it is not going to be appealing on a typical servers.

P-51D is not a high altitude only fighter. Merlin 66 has improved at low altitudes. You know my statement on engine power that we have. If that issue is resolved, the P-51D can fly nearly anywhere.

Have you read anything I've written? Because I specifically gave an example of a short escort mission reduced to around the point in time when the bombers are intercepted.

So, it seems that there is no interest in putting the P-51 into her element. That's kind of sad :(

I would like to see the P51D doing some high level bomber escort, so I am with you regarding that. I just hope we can get some bombers modelled that we can escort. Great battles around bomber formations would be very desirable and very representative.

Happy landings,

Talisman

Have you read anything I've written? Because I specifically gave an example of a short escort mission reduced to around the point in time when the bombers are intercepted.

So basically the Guardian Angel event from.WT.

It was fine there because that game had an MM. While in DCS you will have to restart the server. The mission will take mostly 15min till either all bombers go down or they drop their load.

Would preferr ground start vs air spawn for interception missions. After all bombers don't need to travel tremendous distances and climbing up shoulldn't take too long.

About the "too late to partake" issue, maybe a squad system with flight leaders and wingmen could help that (new players can either spawn as a flight leader back at the base or as a wing man next to the flight leader of their wing even in midflight).

These ideas all sound fun, we should just try them and see how they go. I'd be happy with air starts, or ground starts and climbing up, or a WOL style set of ground targets, or longer missions with pre-planning and junk. It all sounds good fun to me :-)