HOTAS cougar

Hello all,

I just picked up a HOTAS Cougar for 110 pounds just wondering would it have been worth me forking out an extra £40 for the x56 instead? I have pedals on the way so no rudder on the stick isn't an issue. Just wondering if I could get some general feedback on the quality and feel of the cougar thanks!

Hi,

I have a Cougar since 2002, and havent replaced it with a Warthog even tough I've had the money to do so if I wanted to. 110 pounds is a good price, mine costed US400 if I remember correctly

I like the sturdy feel of the Cougar, her weakest link are the potentiometers, which I've already replaced three times (in 15 years), and the gimbals have broken once each (it has two).

Her high point is the easy programming that its Foxy utility provides, that is probably why I've resisted to replace her with a Warthog ... hope I can still get a few more years of service from her :)

Take a look at this guide that I posted a while ago, on how to get Foxy working on a modern PC:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=181049

Best regards

I like the sturdy feel of the Cougar, her weakest link are the potentiometers, which I've already replaced three times (in 15 years), and the gimbals have broken once each (it has two).

 

For both has options: e.g. GVL224 "MagREZ" sensors and Debolestis gimbal, check this topic:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=195464

Hi,

 

I have a Cougar since 2002, and havent replaced it with a Warthog even tough I've had the money to do so if I wanted to. 110 pounds is a good price, mine costed US400 if I remember correctly

 

I like the sturdy feel of the Cougar, her weakest link are the potentiometers, which I've already replaced three times (in 15 years), and the gimbals have broken once each (it has two).

 

Her high point is the easy programming that its Foxy utility provides, that is probably why I've resisted to replace her with a Warthog ... hope I can still get a few more years of service from her :)

 

Take a look at this guide that I posted a while ago, on how to get Foxy working on a modern PC:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=181049

 

Best regards

Hey that's awesome to hear you've had it 15 years! Is the standard hardware good quality on it's own? Would you recommend modding straight away or waiting till something breaks.

Regards

Hey that's awesome to hear you've had it 15 years! Is the standard hardware good quality on it's own?

The build quality of the joystick itself is top notch, all-metal and very sturdy, here is a pic of the joystick (the throttle has a similar build):

The next photo was taken after one of the gimbals broke, three years ago:

I ordered a spare part from Guillemot (the owner of Thrustmaster), at that time they still had spares to sell:

I also took the oportunity to purchase two new pots, to replace two that were worn, one is for the throttle, the other for one of the joystick's axes.

The cost was 15 euros for the gimbal, 10 euros each Pot, 29.17 euros the shipping via UPS and 12.8 euros of VAT, total 77 euros.

Once on my country, our dear Custom office asked US$ 35 in taxes ... not a cheap repair, but I paid it gladly since the market value of this Hotas is still quite high.

Would you recommend modding straight away or waiting till something breaks.

It's hard to say ... I wanted someday to do the following Mod ... but my do-it-yourself abilities are quite few and never got myself to do it. (will add the Mod document in a minute).

Best regards,

LOW COST FORCE SENSING.pdf

Thanks for the info Rudel!

The cost was 15 euros for the gimbal, 10 euros each Pot, 29.17 euros the shipping via UPS and 12.8 euros of VAT, total 77 euros.

Today make more sense invest in Shapeways 3D printed parts developed by Debolestis - the replacement parts from Warthog broken "neck" (made in same cheap Zamac metal of Cougar) are proven resistant, and that gimbal add bearings, who eliminate Cougar native gimbal play.

GVL224 analog sensor as replacement for pot cost ~$10 each. For less than $ 100 modernize/improve the Cougar. :thumbup:

Hello everybody, yes HOTAS COUGAR is a great HOTAS system.

Sokol, I've seen your last message, it's very interesting, where could I find the sensors you say? GVL224.

Thank you very much.

PM GVL224 in this forum. ;)

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=145129

Their sensor (KMZ41) assembled PCB is called "MagREZ" - see pictures in Debolestis gimbal topic (linked above).

BTW - This sensor in Cougar TQS

Assembled by Slaw (of pedals):

http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2016/03/full-35902-119219-9.jpg

http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2016/03/full-35902-119218-8.jpg

http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2016/03/full-35902-119220-13.jpg

BTW, if you are going to buy GVL224 sensors, buy 2 magnets with them. Price for all is arrond 20$.

PM GVL224 in this forum. ;)

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=145129

Their sensor (KMZ41) assembled PCB is called "MagREZ" - see pictures in Debolestis gimbal topic (linked above).

 

BTW - This sensor in Cougar TQS

Assembled by Slaw (of pedals):

http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2016/03/full-35902-119219-9.jpg

http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2016/03/full-35902-119218-8.jpg

http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2016/03/full-35902-119220-13.jpg

Hi, Sokol.

More precisely.

In the photo on the links this is a digital magnetoresistive sensor of my design.

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/17504-digital-magnetic-sensor-control-devices-komaroff/

BR.

Hi, Sokol.

More precisely.

In the photo on the links this is a digital magnetoresistive sensor of my design.

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/17504-digital-magnetic-sensor-control-devices-komaroff/

 

BR.

Ah, OK. The 3 wires coming from sensor misleading me - I take this by GVL224 analog sensor... :)

Anyway this assembly is an example of how fit this type of sensor in PCB (Komaroff, GVL224, TLE5010/11) in Cougar TQS.

Another - more "Redneck" - way. :D

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_08_2015/post-25408-0-31284400-1439504687.jpg

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_08_2015/post-25408-0-01472700-1439504699.jpg

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_08_2015/post-25408-0-72515900-1439504712.jpg

BTW - Komaroff sensor (or MegaMOZG TELE5010/11) is not option for Cougar because work in digital mode, Cougar circuit require analog (voltage variation) sensor/pot. ;)

Ah, OK. The 3 wires coming from sensor misleading me - I take this by GVL224 analog sensor... :)...

Welcome :)

...

BTW - Komaroff sensor is not option for Cougar because work in digital mode, Cougar circuit require analog (voltage variation) sensor/pot. ;)

Analog version and adapter

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/17504-digital-magnetic-sensor-control-devices-komaroff/#entry493833

Coming soon...

:)

Her high point is the easy programming that its Foxy utility provides, that is probably why I've resisted to replace her with a Warthog ... hope I can still get a few more years of service from her :)

 

Take a look at this guide that I posted a while ago, on how to get Foxy working on a modern PC:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=181049

An even higher point is the Cougar is fully supported by TARGET, the programming software for the Warthog. I'm not putting down Foxy - I used it for years and for those that like it, it does everything you need. But TARGET is easier to use for many (the TARGET GUI), or for people who like programming in a text file and a scripted language, the TARGET Script language is more powerful than Foxy (or rather, easier to achieve the same result).

The point is, whether you want to use TARGET or Foxy, you give up nothing with a Cougar. In fact, using TARGET, you can combine your Cougar with any other supported Thrustmaster product (even another Warthog or Cougar) and share the shifted and mode states across all such devices (the Foxy IO and UMD states). Hence, if you get a HOTAS Warthog later, or just the Warthog Throttle, you can make it work transparently with your Cougar.

As for the stick and throttle itself, the biggest problem is with the stick's gimbals. They suck. I stopped using my Cougar because there is about 1mm of play in the gimbal due to wear. That's a 1mm deadzone in the center of the stick's movement. Looks like with the Shapeways gimbal setup, there is a cheap alternative to fix that. The 3D printed parts are following the concept of the Uber 2 NXT gimbal set that was hugely popular a decade ago (using pull-pull springs). It gives a better feel than even a HOTAS Warthog stick in that there is no center detent at all, and it completely eliminates what made the Cougar so awful (it's original gimbals). So I would not hesitate to make that upgrade right away. But do the version where you retain the original Cougar PCB. Get the hall effect sensor boards that are analog output and hence compatible with the original Cougar PCB. That way you retain the use of Foxy and TARGET. Because the real reason why the Thrustmaster products are great is the programmability through TARGET.

Because the real reason why the Thrustmaster products are great is the programmability through TARGET.

I beg to differ.

The only decent products of TM are the Warthog throttle and the Warthog grip. Cougar grip is also not too shabby and even then they aren't that great. It's just that the competition is utter crap. Programmability? Why would I want to "program anything" if the stick directly fits the hotas philosophy rather then the Saitek "generic", "notenoughhatsonthestick" approach. :)

... Programmability? Why would I want to "program anything" if the stick directly fits the hotas philosophy

I dont fly just the A-10C ... I like to program my Cougar so that it can work well with such dissimilar aircrafts as the Ka-50, the Viggen and the P-51 ... just using game defaults doesn't cut it for me.

I keep trying to find one because I use to have it as a kid. I just wish I could get the throttle to run by itself because then I would just use my warthog stick.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Because the real reason why the Thrustmaster products are great is the programmability through TARGET.

I beg to differ.

The only decent products of TM are the Warthog throttle and the Warthog grip. Cougar grip is also not too shabby and even then they aren't that great. It's just that the competition is utter crap. Programmability? Why would I want to "program anything" if the stick directly fits the hotas philosophy rather then the Saitek "generic", "notenoughhatsonthestick" approach. :)

Yes, the Cougar stick's gimbals are crap - I said that. The Cougar throttle, though, is mostly pretty nice - some button and knob issues that are well documented, and sadly, still having to deal with the Cougar Control Panel (CCP) is a bit of a pain. The Warthog is a huge leap forward in quality vs. the Cougar, yes. and the Warthog throttle is excellent. But in all of that, the reason I buy Thrustmaster is because of the programability (using Foxy originally, and now TARGET). Most popular game controllers offer some programmability, but none of them hold a candle to using the TARGET scripting language. Sadly, though, it is not for everyone. For that, they have the TARGET GUI, which is about as good as the programmability provided by most Saitek products.

Why would you want to program the HOTAS? Because the default HOTAS setup you find in sims like DCS don't take advantage of the stick's full capability. By using TARGET, I can double triple, or quadruple, many functions onto the same buttons. I can swap from pilot to weapons officer in the Gazelle for example and make all the buttons work differently. Or I can use a press and hold button to recenter my TrackIR while still allowing that button to be used for a normal purpose with a quick press.

But the biggest reason why I program the HOTAS functions using TARGET is because it means I can control the way the stick works regardless of the sim. I always keep the sim setup at it's default. Aside from assigning the analog axis in the sim, I program all other functions to use the default keyboard combos. Now when a new aircraft comes out, or if DCS does something to clobber the configs in the sim (which has happened!), instead of having to re-assign all the buttons in DCS for the new aircraft, I copy the TARGET profile, make a few changes to fix the minor differences, and in short order, I have the same complex configuration working for the new aircraft. Also, with programming, I can program functions for Teamspeak, TrackIR, etc. that are not part of the sim.

It's not for everyone - you can plug in a Cougar or Warthog and use the built in DCS profile and it will work. But you are limiting the real power of a programmable HOTAS setup. Hence my comment, the best part of a Thurstmaster HOTAS is the software programability - for those that are interested in using it.

Programmability? Why would I want to "program anything" if the stick directly fits the hotas philosophy rather then the Saitek "generic", "notenoughhatsonthestick" approach.

Why would you program anything? Well, it's a matter of choice - you either adapt to somebody else's command profile or you make your own which suits your logic better.

Regarding the number of hats, it depends on the stick. Which Saitek HOTAS are you comparing the top of the line TM HOTAS with anyway?

E.g. TM Cougar throttle is pretty poor in the hat department (only one) while Saitek X65 throttle has like 5 (not counting the mouse controller on both). The X55/56 has 'only' three IIRC (two X65 hats are replaced with simple buttons), but TM Warthog throttle gives you only 2 anyway which offsets one less hat on the stick on the X55 (the X56 and X65 sticks have the same number of hats as the TM sticks).

It's not for everyone - you can plug in a Cougar or Warthog and use the built in DCS profile and it will work. But you are limiting the real power of a programmable HOTAS setup. Hence my comment, the best part of a Thurstmaster HOTAS is the software programability - for those that are interested in using it.

Agreed. Saitek SST is functional enough for me in general as it works OK (there are some slowdown issues, plus it doesn't combine multiple Saitek devices which is pretty silly given their panels and stuff), but you only have a basic set of features (key press/release, modes and shift states).

If you need some more advanced stuff (e.g. iterating through a list of combinations on each press, etc.), you need something like TARGET.

I haven't used CH so can't comment on what's possible there.