ALCM not working

ALCM not working after full ALN, and a rearm/refuel

Quick example but it's the same after a flight, can't ALCM after a rearm refuel

edit: in fact you can only align once

Yes I try it too. After landing and shutting down the aircraft (engine and battery), when I start up again INS was still aligned and can't launch any kind of ALCM or ALM.

Same.

In the vid theres still power to the INS. It might be assumed that not turning it off doesnt require alignment again?

I turned it off and engine and battery too. Same issue ;)

OB 1.5.4 U1

ALCM now working but does a negative countdown from 000 to -090, I think that have to be from 90 to 0 :)

Is ALCM working correctly now? I just tried to perform ALCM after rearming and it counted from 000 to -090 as Harke said. After it finished I switched to NAV and it said the nav system is degraded (N.DEG). I'm not sure if I did anything wrong or if this is a bug.

After that I tried a normal alignment, but it was not possible to align the nav system anymore at all. :dunno:

not fixed.

in-flight radar ranging or fly over PCN alignment does not work either when it is in this state.

it remains in ndeg condition, you cannot use ALN, ALCM, REC or OBL.

Resetting the UNI completely does not fix it.

not fixed.

in-flight radar ranging or fly over PCN alignment does not work either when it is in this state.

it remains in ndeg condition, you cannot use ALN, ALCM, REC or OBL.

 

Resetting the UNI completely does not fix it.

Thanks, so it's not me doing something wrong :D

@RAZBAM: Any plans on fixing this? :)

I used ALCM yesterday night, after a refuel&rearm, on 1.5.6 U2, no issue (except the old inverted counter which remains to be fixed).

try this:

go cockpit, align (full alignment), start the engine procedure, when done, request a refuel/rearm

in my case, the PCN goes into ndeg. then try ALCM... in my case, even though the alignment process is taking place, after the procedure the PCN remains in ndeg.

take off anyway, and try a radar ranging and/or a fly-by re-alignment...

Well, I must say that:

- I "rarely" feel the need to re-align after having already fully aligned the aircraft.

- I almost never perform hot refuel/rearm.

- I wouldn't perform alignment (ALN or ALCM) with engine running, unless there is no other option (i.e. no GPU available).

But if I were to try, here would be the result (see attachment).

To be comprehensive I did ALN, refuel/rearm, ACLM (cold), engine start, rearm again, ACLM (hot), take off, bomb run with TAS (not my best one I'm afraid).

++

Az'

PS: No such thing as a fly-by re-alignment; you can do a position update inflight (fly by, slant range...) but you simply cannot do an alignment.

M2K_refuel&rearm_ALCM_hot.trk

I'm a little bit confused with the procedures now.

What I usally do (multiplayer):

Get in the cockpit -> ALN with ground power -> NAV -> start engine -> fly & fight -> RTB -> shutdown -> rearm & refuel -> ALCM -> NAV -> N.deg -> :(

I still don't understand what the problem is. Is my procedure wrong?

Is my procedure wrong?

Nope, it looks OK.

I would advise to add the GPU before shutdown, but that's not mandatory (unless perhaps you take much time and get the CC caution before validating the ALCM?). Better safe than sorry: connect the GPU.

Get in the cockpit -> ALN with ground power -> NAV -> start engine -> fly & fight -> RTB -> get GPU + shutdown engine -> rearm & refuel -> get N.deg at this point (as a consequence of the rearm & refuel) -> perform an ALCM -> NAV -> start engine again and disconnect GPU

Nope, it looks OK.

 

I would advise to add the GPU before shutdown, but that's not mandatory (unless perhaps you take much time and get the CC caution before validating the ALCM?). Better safe than sorry: connect the GPU.

 

Get in the cockpit -> ALN with ground power -> NAV -> start engine -> fly & fight -> RTB -> get GPU + shutdown engine -> rearm & refuel -> get N.deg at this point (as a consequence of the rearm & refuel) -> perform an ALCM -> NAV -> start engine again and disconnect GPU

Alright, thanks, I'll try rearming with GPU then. I'm used to rearm when the aircraft is entirely cold, to avoid possible bugs with the weapon systems when the loadout is getting changed when they're online. There have been bugs like that in the past (in other modules I think), so I got used to that :D

OK. I did try without GPU before answering to you yesterday. I didn't try with a completely cold & dark aircraft.

I did however refuel and rearm cold & dark, but only at mission start (i.e. before performing the first ALN). This works OK too: mission start (C&D) => GPU => refuel/rearm => ALN => engine start. No N.deg issue when doing this.

OK. I did try without GPU before answering to you yesterday. I didn't try with a completely cold & dark aircraft.

 

I did however refuel and rearm cold & dark, but only at mission start (i.e. before performing the first ALN). This works OK too: mission start (C&D) => GPU => refuel/rearm => ALN => engine start. No N.deg issue when doing this.

I also have no N.deg issue when performing ALN, only when I perform the ALCM I get N.deg. And when that happens nothing works anymore, not even the normal ALN.

I will investigate and try some variations later. I haven't bothered much with ALCM. I just tried it on 2-3 occaisons during online play and it never worked.

I have a couple of questions on the Ins.

On page 77 of the manual, under ALCN, it says "see INS Alignment." I can't seem to find INS Alignment anywhere? So I am not sure what ALCN is.

Does the INS radar position update work? I read that this is not functional and that the "fly over" INS update works even if your not directly over the waypoint feature, just "near" it? I tried to do an offset waypoint attack and attempted a radar waypoint update at the IP, but couldn't seem to get it right? My offset target point was off by several hundred feet.

I am not sure whether to use the special menu and just use the always aligned and zero drift feature, if the update features are not 100%.

Finally, when passing a waypoint, I don't seem to get an auto waypoint change to the next waypoint, I must enter the next waypoint manually and the range, eta, ground speed functions are only selectable when I have the "prep" button set to the current active waypoint?

Regards to all.

David

On page 77 of the manual, under ALCN, it says "see INS Alignment." I can't seem to find INS Alignment anywhere? So I am not sure what ALCN is.

ALCN doesn't exist. ALCM does, OTOH.

Means ALignement sur Cap Mémorisé. So, alignement, but without the INS finding out the heading of the aircraft (vs true North) but rather using the heading it previously memorized. To be used if the aircraft did not move since the last use of the INS. In DCS, to be used after a rearm/refuel.

ALN (ALignement Normal, Normal Alignment) is, as its name implies, the standard way of doing an INS Alignment. Lasts longer.

You're reading an outdated version of the manual. On mine (current version), the alignment is described page 99 and next ones.

Does the INS radar position update work? I read that this is not functional and that the "fly over" INS update works even if your not directly over the waypoint feature, just "near" it? I tried to do an offset waypoint attack and attempted a radar waypoint update at the IP, but couldn't seem to get it right? My offset target point was off by several hundred feet.

 

I am not sure whether to use the special menu and just use the always aligned and zero drift feature, if the update features are not 100%.

Your findings are correct; INS updates are buggy at the moment. It's to you to decide to use or not the options features.

I don't use them, but then I don't do IP bombing either (until it's sorted out).

Finally, when passing a waypoint, I don't seem to get an auto waypoint change to the next waypoint, I must enter the next waypoint manually

I can't tell, never tried the auto-switch to next WPT.

and the range, eta, ground speed functions are only selectable when I have the "prep" button set to the current active waypoint?

Not exactly. But this is per design & correct.

What you call the "active" one is the DEST waypoint. Its data are displayed on the HSI and HUD.

All data displayed on the PCN are related to PREP waypoint. It doesn't need to be the "active" one, meaning you can navigate to WPT1 and still get data e.g. range/ETA to WPT 3 at the same time. Of course, if you navigate to WPT1 and want to know your ETA to it, then you need to have DEST = PREP, both on "01".

ALCN doesn't exist. ALCM does, OTOH.

Means ALignement sur Cap Mémorisé. So, alignement, but without the INS finding out the heading of the aircraft (vs true North) but rather using the heading it previously memorized. To be used if the aircraft did not move since the last use of the INS. In DCS, to be used after a rearm/refuel.

 

ALN (ALignement Normal, Normal Alignment) is, as its name implies, the standard way of doing an INS Alignment. Lasts longer.

You're reading an outdated version of the manual. On mine (current version), the alignment is described page 99 and next ones.

 

 

 

Your findings are correct; INS updates are buggy at the moment. It's to you to decide to use or not the options features.

I don't use them, but then I don't do IP bombing either (until it's sorted out).

 

 

I can't tell, never tried the auto-switch to next WPT.

 

 

Not exactly. But this is per design & correct.

What you call the "active" one is the DEST waypoint. Its data are displayed on the HSI and HUD.

All data displayed on the PCN are related to PREP waypoint. It doesn't need to be the "active" one, meaning you can navigate to WPT1 and still get data e.g. range/ETA to WPT 3 at the same time. Of course, if you navigate to WPT1 and want to know your ETA to it, then you need to have DEST = PREP, both on "01".

Many thanks.

Have you a link to your manual, I thought I had the latest?

Incidentally, I noticed that the INS will auto switch to next waypoint, during the flight, provided the master arm and air to ground weapons are not armed. I believe the auto waypoint update is disabled if your armed?

Thanks once again.:thumbup:

Regards

David

Hi,

"My" manual is the one provided with the module, so you have it too ;)

\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\M-2000C\Doc

Incidentally, I noticed that the INS will auto switch to next waypoint, during the flight, provided the master arm and air to ground weapons are not armed. I believe the auto waypoint update is disabled if your armed?

Correct :)

Hi,

 

"My" manual is the one provided with the module, so you have it too ;)

\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\M-2000C\Doc

 

 

Correct :)

:doh:

Thanks again! Always forget the obvious thing, must be me having another senior moment!:music_whistling:

Best regards

David

Well, I must say that:

- I "rarely" feel the need to re-align after having already fully aligned the aircraft.

- I almost never perform hot refuel/rearm.

- I wouldn't perform alignment (ALN or ALCM) with engine running, unless there is no other option (i.e. no GPU available).

Thanks for the trk Az' i'll check it...

i too do not "feel" the need to re-align after the aircraft has spent 8mns on the ground to full alignment, but in the case of the matter, if you happened to have forgotten to request the pod eclair for instance, and therefore request a "rearm", in my case, the PCN displayed "ndeg"...

then there was no way to clear the ndeg warning since i could not use ALN or ALCM anymore...

Anyway, it?s fixed now since the last update... :D

Thanks for the trk Az' i'll check it...

i too do not "feel" the need to re-align after the aircraft has spent 8mns on the ground to full alignment,

OK :)

but in the case of the matter, if you happened to have forgotten to request the pod eclair for instance, and therefore request a "rearm", in my case, the PCN displayed "ndeg"...

Check list (*) 1 - 0 Pilot's memory. ;)

Ndeg apparition is an expected behaviour in this case, as per Razbam's implementation.

(*) including "payload - check" step

then there was no way to clear the ndeg warning since i could not use ALN or ALCM anymore...

 

Anyway, it?s fixed now since the last update... :D

Well, ALCM worked for me even before the last update. Must have been something wrong with your DCS installation, or a human mix-up. At least, it wasn't a "general" bug.

Glad it's OK now :)