Case I Marshall altitude with AI

In a perfect world with cyclic ops, all aircraft would be in the stack at their squadron assigned altitudes 10min before recovery starts. Until this is implemented though, it makes sense that aircraft join the stack above any aircraft already holding. Currently, how do we figure this out?

If I’m inbound but in trail of 2 AI flights, what altitude should I join the stack at, 4000?

I assume the AI ahead of me will take 2000 & 3000, but is this dependent on when a flight checks-in? If I call first, even though I’m further away, am I reserving my level first, and therefore expected to take 2000?

What we need is ATC to actually assign us an altitude on check-in. Whilst this is not completely realistic, neither is what we have now, so that shouldn’t be the argument for not making improvements to the arrival flow. Also, it would be great to be able to hear AI comms with ATC to help build some situational awareness when returning.

What do people do at the moment, especially those who are predominantly single player and have to operate with a lot of AI aircraft?

With AI aircraft you will have no issues...they will get assigned an holding altitude in the bubble (you won't hear any radio call for this)....they will adapt to you...so if you will be breaking the deck and go at the initial they will hold.

The problem arise in MP in open servers where some sort of coordination is needed.

I think virtual squadrons will have their own way to cooperate without any issue.

Anyway proper stacking has already been requested...don't know if there is any plan to add it later but it would make sense

I’m not quite sure what you mean, especially “assigned an holding altitude in the bubble”. If I arrive at the carrier, and there’s already a couple AI flights ahead of me in the stack, how do I know what altitude to hold at? If there’s 2 flights already in the stack, logic would say I should be joining at 4000’ instead of 2000’? I’m assuming I don’t just push in at 2000’, and risk a mid air with a flight already holding there?

Seems the AI do a great job when they’re all after me in the landing sequence. I just don’t know how to fit in myself if I’m not the first flight to recover.

This is a first EA. Give it a time. Im sure ED will implement more features in the future.

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I did a single player mission with 6 x 4 ship of hornets and 3 x 4 ship of tomcats arriving at the CV.

Here is what I noticed. The AI does seem to stack sequentially in altitude (2000, 3000, 4000 etc). Neither marshall nor tower give the human player any direction so I just slotted in behind the flights at the next altitude which was 5000. Normally I get "305 established angles 5000 etc" which towers responds immediately "Signal is Charlie... etc...". With the "305 established call being automatic once you are within a couple miles of the CV. When I arrived after a couple of AI flights in the marshall stack and pattern I got no response so I assumed I did not have signal Charlie yet. I went around the marshall a couple times and then I eventually got the tower saying Signal is Charlie. I assume this is the AI tower waiting to call you down once the pattern is clear. I got this message ahead of two flights below me in the stack and so I descended through their altitudes. My flight also had the lowest fuel state. I am not sure if the AI takes in account fuel state when choosing the next flight to give Signal Charlie but it appears it did. I am also not sure if this is common for flights descend through other flights altitude bands to get to the initial. Maybe it is because it is all VFR and stack altitude isn't necessarily related to fuel state? I also noticed that the AI tower landed a number of the hornet flights before the last two tomcat flights. I am not sure if it fuel state or endurance is in the AI decision process to call down the next flight.

At the end the CV managed to land all the flights (36 aircraft) it in a pretty organized manner. It was pretty cool to watch in VR from the LSO station flights entering the break with additional flights overhead. I think it would help if we could hear the AI flight communicate with marshall, tower and the LSO although with all of that one freq it could get pretty cluttered. It would also help to have some clarification from ED (perhaps in the manual) what is SOP for player flights integrating with AI flights (particularly for marshall stack altitude) and order of precedence for signal charlie. It also looks like 4 aircraft is max the AI tower allows in the landing pattern and the next flight does not seem to commence until the #4 has landed. Not sure how it is done IRL.

Anyway those are just my observations.

I haven’t had the chance to test it as much, but found it worked in a similar fashion. I joined the stack at 3,000’, above a flight of 4 hornets at 2,000’. I was never given signal charlie so stayed in the stack waiting. Unfortunately the F-14s in the landing pattern got stuck in repeated wave-offs due to bad parking so I was unable to see how it would all play out.

Despite my best efforts with the radar, I did have to use the F10 view to confirm what altitude the flights ahead of me were joining the Marshall stack. ATC directions would be better, so this is hopefully something that will get improved in time.

From what I understand, the squadron is assigned a Marshall altitude. Of course I don't see that happening here so I think it's not finished yet. BUt I've found in the instant action F-14 missions anyway, that if you choose 2000 for Marshall, everything seems fine.

When flying the Marshall around the post though, I've never had to fly the enitre poistion from 1 through 4. When I approach 1, my plane calls overhead angels 2, etc and they give me signal charlie off the bat. So I fly position 2 then 3 before I descend and get ready to enter the intitial (since descents are done between positions 2 and 4). Anyone ever have to fly all 4 positions?

v6,

boNes

My serious recommendation is to look out the window.

My serious recommendation is to look out the window.

So you are able to see every flight already holding in the stack from 10nm out?(That’s the min distance you have to be at your holding altitude by.) Better eyes than mine.

In general the AI behaviour around the carrier is superb, and watching arrivals is an absolute joy. The only thing missing is some guidance/direction on how a human player fits into this sequence, either in the manual or more directly via ATC.

Best way ive determined this is while inbound around 15nm from the carrier, I'll go to 5000ft. Then switch to f10 map and check what altitudes the other flights are at in the Marshall stack. Then go 1000ft above the highest aircraft

That’s what I do currently. Hopefully later in EA it’s improved so we don’t need F10 to determine the correct stack joining altitude.

But for non-CQ opeations, shouldn't the "charlie" be called just for the first one in stack (the deck breaker) and rest will then follow the traffic in stack and move down as planes leave the stack (two planes in 180 degree phase per altitude)?