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Why does every thread on this forum gets sidetracked until a discussion of the merits or otherwise of DCS' approach to early access?

 

Wouldn't it be more productive for the community managers to be spending their time answering module specific questions such as flight model changes, TGP features, rather than having to defend or explain Early Access / Change of Plans. Which they have down countless times so far.

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Why does every thread on this forum gets sidetracked until a discussion of the merits or otherwise of DCS' approach to early access?

 

Wouldn't it be more productive for the community managers to be spending their time answering module specific questions such as flight model changes, TGP features, rather than having to defend or explain Early Access / Change of Plans. Which they have down countless times so far.

 

Well, it would... But because reasons it can't be like that :)

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Yes very good news!

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This is good news and I want to be positive...

 

My only concern is, what happens to the F-16 now? Does development now stop for it? There is still a tremendous amount of work to be done. I hope ED doesn't think they can switch development back and forth between the Hornet and Viper...that isn't going to go over very well with anyone.

 

 

 

Yes they did, ED said it themselves. Now, the latest Newsletter mentions there being one developement team...if they are back on the Hornet, who is working on the F-16?

Angry customer "what about the hornet, what about the hornet, what about the hornet."

ED "we are working on the hornet and ready to release a large update!"

Angry customerr "what about the viper, what about the viper, what about the viper."

ED "sigh"

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Anyways back to the good news from Wags...I think I’m actually more interested in Spot mode at this point. TWS is novel, but the ability to concentrate scans without moving the nose is going to be to huge for me.

 

As BVR goes the hornets at a disadvantage against rocket ships like the fulcrum, eagle, tomcat, and viper.

 

How is that, being the Hornet with AIM-120, and the Fulcrum with its "weak" A-A radar ?

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Why does every thread on this forum gets sidetracked until a discussion of the merits or otherwise of DCS' approach to early access?

 

Wouldn't it be more productive for the community managers to be spending their time answering module specific questions such as flight model changes, TGP features, rather than having to defend or explain Early Access / Change of Plans. Which they have down countless times so far.

 

I think ED are doing the best they can to keep the lights on so I'm quite sympathetic with their situation; however I also think their coms are lacking, with no real timescales.

 

I think at this point they'd be better off sharing some of their targets for when they're going to release new features. They'll might not meet many of them and that'll attract some flak, but at least we'd get an idea of what to expect and when, which I think would be better than being kept in the dark.

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I've always said to me it appears frustration is born out of communication for most people and in fairness in the last 6 weeks this has improved with @bignewy @nineline in terms of future scope/delivering.

 

I think ED have understood the frustration from certain aspects of the Hornet community - no point hammering them now when that message has been communicated and delivered. Its positive news and lets face it, DCS is outstanding despite having faults, bugs, nothing else comes anywhere close (i play purely VR and ex falcon/BMS etc).

 

Looking forward to the new features, especially ground effect being resolved.

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I have the Hornet and the Viper... but what I really want is the Carrier Module.

 

I am enjoying both in EA and have no problem waiting for everything to be fleshed out.

 

The constant cries of “I want it now” is not productive and gets nothing done any faster.

 

But it appears that some believe differently.

 

I have been flying flight sims for 20+ years and have never seen anything like this...

 

Therefore, a rating of :doh::doh::doh: is warranted.

 

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I have the Hornet and the Viper... but what I really want is the Carrier Module.

...

 

Hi, MegOhm. Long time no see.

 

Yeah, I am chompin' at the bit to get a carrier that more closely aligns with Natops. I was a Red Shirt on a carrier and miss the insane action.

The Hornet is best at killing things on the ground. Now, if we could just get a GAU-8 in the nose next to the AN/APG-65, a titanium tub around the pilot, and a couple of J-58 engines in the tail...

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I have the Hornet and the Viper... but what I really want is the Carrier Module.

 

I am enjoying both in EA and have no problem waiting for everything to be fleshed out.

 

The constant cries of “I want it now” is not productive and gets nothing done any faster.

 

But it appears that some believe differently.

 

I have been flying flight sims for 20+ years and have never seen anything like this...

 

Therefore, a rating of :doh::doh::doh: is warranted.

 

I get what you're saying, but I've not really seen much of "I want it now" rather more "I've fed up of not knowing when we're getting it". Largely because in the last 20 years, we've not waited years to get a completed module before either.

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How is that, being the Hornet with AIM-120, and the Fulcrum with its "weak" A-A radar ?

 

Its an odd comment to make for sure. The hornet if anything should be better than the Viper and better than the 90's eagle we have for BVR, and certainly the mig29. The combination the AESA radar and high end datalink pretty much ensure that. That being said though, the F18 is currently underdeveloped on the radar department. Also its not clear to me how well/badly the FC3 radars are modeled on the mig29 as I don't really fly it. The SU27 and F15 radars seem quite capable from the little I've used them.

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Its an odd comment to make for sure. The hornet if anything should be better than the Viper and better than the 90's eagle we have for BVR, and certainly the mig29. The combination the AESA radar and high end datalink pretty much ensure that. That being said though, the F18 is currently underdeveloped on the radar department. Also its not clear to me how well/badly the FC3 radars are modeled on the mig29 as I don't really fly it. The SU27 and F15 radars seem quite capable from the little I've used them.
We dont have AESA in our hornets. Also from a purely BVR standpoint, the viper should be marginally superior (same pilot skills) thanks to its superior energy state to give the amraam that extra punch. A close contest in any case.

 

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I have the Hornet and the Viper... but what I really want is the Carrier Module.

 

I am enjoying both in EA and have no problem waiting for everything to be fleshed out.

 

The constant cries of “I want it now” is not productive and gets nothing done any faster.

 

But it appears that some believe differently.

 

I have been flying flight sims for 20+ years and have never seen anything like this...

 

Therefore, a rating of :doh::doh::doh: is warranted.

 

I think most of us have accepted what early access is and also understand why it is needed. What people are truly upset about is how it is handled.

 

It isn't about "I want it now," it's more about "I want what I paid for and what I was told I would get."

 

We didn't know that development would stop on the Hornet and go to the Viper, we were actually told the complete opposite. We didn't know the Viper would be released in such a poor state, considering the standard of high quality set by previous modules. We didn't know that development would now end up having to alternate between the Hornet and Viper.

 

Bait and switch tactics, money grab...whether intentional or not, that is the perception of what early access seems to be right now.

 

What is being viewed as good news from Wags for the Hornet right now, is actually bad news for the Viper. When development switches back to the Viper, it will be bad news for the Hornet again. I don't think any of us envisioned this being how things would progress for either aircraft when we originally purchased them.

 

I think a lot of this could have been avoided if ED was honest and forthcoming from the very beginning. Tell us that there aren't enough employees to fully support multiple aircraft, causing development to switch back and forth. Tell us that the F-16 would be released as extremely early access and not meet the standard of high quality set by previous modules. This information must be out in the open before taking money from people and asking for their support.

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I have the Hornet and the Viper... but what I really want is the Carrier Module.

 

I am enjoying both in EA and have no problem waiting for everything to be fleshed out.

 

The constant cries of “I want it now” is not productive and gets nothing done any faster.

 

But it appears that some believe differently.

 

I have been flying flight sims for 20+ years and have never seen anything like this...

 

Therefore, a rating of :doh::doh::doh: is warranted.

 

I was wondering with all the December love that's coming for the Hornet does it possibly include the introduction of the carrier module also? It seems to be close with all the EA talk going on about it.

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I think most of us have accepted what early access is and also understand why it is needed. What people are truly upset about is how it is handled.

 

It isn't about "I want it now," it's more about "I want what I paid for and what I was told I would get."

 

We didn't know that development would stop on the Hornet and go to the Viper, we were actually told the complete opposite. We didn't know the Viper would be released in such a poor state, considering the standard of high quality set by previous modules. We didn't know that development would now end up having to alternate between the Hornet and Viper.

 

Bait and switch tactics, money grab...whether intentional or not, that is the perception of what early access seems to be right now.

 

What is being viewed as good news from Wags for the Hornet right now, is actually bad news for the Viper. When development switches back to the Viper, it will be bad news for the Hornet again. I don't think any of us envisioned this being how things would progress for either aircraft when we originally purchased them.

 

I think a lot of this could have been avoided if ED was honest and forthcoming from the very beginning. Tell us that there aren't enough employees to fully support multiple aircraft, causing development to switch back and forth. Tell us that the F-16 would be released as extremely early access and not meet the standard of high quality set by previous modules. This information must be out in the open before taking money from people and asking for their support.

 

I believe early on it was understood that both planes had a lot of similar tech that was being developed and they would borrow from each other in development. That's the way I saw the plans early on. If anyone that has been around long enough in this community they would understand that SUBJECT TO CHANGE creeps up often and shouldn't debate it, but accept it for the greater good to keeps our hobby going. We have come a looonnng way in this series and we now have access to two very popular fighters with access to systems that I never thought could/would be developed. Take a step back and let that soak in for a moment!

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I think most of us have accepted what early access is and also understand why it is needed. What people are truly upset about is how it is handled.

 

It isn't about "I want it now," it's more about "I want what I paid for and what I was told I would get."

 

We didn't know that development would stop on the Hornet and go to the Viper, we were actually told the complete opposite. We didn't know the Viper would be released in such a poor state, considering the standard of high quality set by previous modules. We didn't know that development would now end up having to alternate between the Hornet and Viper.

 

Bait and switch tactics, money grab...whether intentional or not, that is the perception of what early access seems to be right now.

 

What is being viewed as good news from Wags for the Hornet right now, is actually bad news for the Viper. When development switches back to the Viper, it will be bad news for the Hornet again. I don't think any of us envisioned this being how things would progress for either aircraft when we originally purchased them.

 

I think a lot of this could have been avoided if ED was honest and forthcoming from the very beginning. Tell us that there aren't enough employees to fully support multiple aircraft, causing development to switch back and forth. Tell us that the F-16 would be released as extremely early access and not meet the standard of high quality set by previous modules. This information must be out in the open before taking money from people and asking for their support.

 

+1 Very good post.

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We dont have AESA in our hornets. Also from a purely BVR standpoint, the viper should be marginally superior (same pilot skills) thanks to its superior energy state to give the amraam that extra punch. A close contest in any case.

 

Enviado desde mi SM-G950F mediante Tapatalk

 

We will have Aesa at some point though.

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I believe early on it was understood that both planes had a lot of similar tech that was being developed and they would borrow from each other in development. That's the way I saw the plans early on. If anyone that has been around long enough in this community they would understand that SUBJECT TO CHANGE creeps up often and shouldn't debate it, but accept it for the greater good to keeps our hobby going. We have come a looonnng way in this series and we now have access to two very popular fighters with access to systems that I never thought could/would be developed. Take a step back and let that soak in for a moment!

 

I've been around for a while too and agree in principle, but it's not reasonable to expect new players to. Put yourself in their shoes: pay AAA price for a single module, then realise it won't be complete for years, with no information on when it'll be done. Not a good way to retain new customers, and that's not good for DCS longevity.

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We will have Aesa at some point though.

 

Where in the world did you get this idea stuck in your head that any legacy hornet ever received or is planning to receive an AESA radar? Are you referring to an upcoming module? I understand Razbam is doing an early block f the F-15E so I don't think we'll be seeing AESA there. Would be cool if ED did a super hornet or FF upgraded F-15 though, then we'd get some AESA goodness :)

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  • ED Team

10 pages in and now completely off topic.

 

I think we can close this thread.

 

Thank you all for the feedback.

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