Head / Cockpit shake level adjustment option

Would be nice with an option to adjust the severity of the head or cockpit shake for the F-14, as for example we can with the MiG-21 module.

For example atm I feel the shaking is abit to pronounced in level flight.

Minor thing ofcourse, but just a suggestion.

+1

Would be nice with an option to adjust the severity of the head or cockpit shake for the F-14, as for example we can with the MiG-21 module.

 

For example atm I feel the shaking is abit to pronounced in level flight.

 

Minor thing ofcourse, but just a suggestion.

The aerodynamic buffet is correct. It might be a little weak at extreme alpha.

Please, please Heatblur give us a slider to adjust the amount of cockpit shaking!

It's the main thing that is putting me off from buying the Tomcat. I simply can't stand it. The Mig-21 and Mi-8 for example have an adjustment slider and I think it would be absolutely needed here for the F-14.

Please, please Heatblur give us a slider to adjust the amount of cockpit shaking!

 

It's the main thing that is putting me off from buying the Tomcat. I simply can't stand it. The Mig-21 and Mi-8 for example have an adjustment slider and I think it would be absolutely needed here for the F-14.

+1

But it's like that in the real aircraft? If you don't like a realistic simulation of high AOA then go play War Thunder or Ace Combcat quite frankly.

But it's like that in the real aircraft? If you don't like a realistic simulation of high AOA then go play War Thunder or Ace Combcat quite frankly.

I agree to an extent, but we are a small community and so it’s counterproductive to send someone away just because he is not all-in on realism.

To the OP I would say dont get discouraged before hand, you havent even tried the F-14 ... trust me, the shaking will actually help you in learning how to fly the aircraft correctly to avoid high shaking levels.

At first I hated the shaking and vibration, but as I got some time in, I came to like it and now think it's a great feature

I certainly wouldn't say, don't have a slider.

If some want it and it's an easy implement why not, I'm all for having choice.

The purests can have it dialled up and those learning (or those who just don't like it) dialled down

The cockpit shake lets you know you better consider slowing down! It is kind of important!

I like it. Adds more immersion to the sim.

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But it's like that in the real aircraft? If you don't like a realistic simulation of high AOA then go play War Thunder or Ace Combcat quite frankly.

I'd suggest you pass the Navy selection process, complete years of flight training and get jets. Until then, please keep your uneducated comments for yourself.

The shaking we currently have in the DCS Tomcat is anything but realistic.

I'd suggest you pass the Navy selection process, complete years of flight training and get jets. Until then, please keep your uneducated comments for yourself.

 

The shaking we currently have in the DCS Tomcat is anything but realistic.

Please refer to post #3 on this thread, that is our F-14 pilot SME.

Please refer to post #3 on this thread, that is our F-14 pilot SME.

I've read his post already, and of course he is correct. But that's not what I'm talking about. The shaking in itself is correct. I'm not against the shaking. What I don't like is how it looks visually here in DCS.

+1 Agreed. The constant jiggling/shaking at certain cruise speeds is bad..

Ok, we get it - "The aerodynamic buffet is correct", but I am finding the constant jiggling in VR is giving me a headache/making me sick - like having really poor headset sensor tracking.

I have been flying in VR for a long time doing all sorts of aerobatic flying and feel perfectly fine.

High AOA buffet - perfect, awesome visual indicator of AOA....constant cockpit jiggling straight and level. ....slider please! How about some sound-based feedback instead of high-speed jiggle.

What you are refering to is most likely the mach transition buffet, if you say in level flight, that happens shortly before you break the sound barrier.

We are sorry that it is not to everyone's taste, but offering a slider would defeat the precise implementation that has been done closely with our SMEs and is connected to the FM. Such a slider could then also be an FM-slider, as in adding and taking away features (like buffeting) to the player's preference. Don't get me wrong, we are absolutely in favour of giving the players maximum choice if possible, but the FM is a very delicate balance of so many different aspects, that one cannot provide just a slider to turn one aspect down or up. I hope that makes sense.

That said we will think about it, but it is very unlikely that we will implement a feature like that. So please do not get your hopes high. Thank you for understanding.

That said we will think about it, but it is very unlikely that we will implement a feature like that. So please do not get your hopes high. Thank you for understanding.

I appreciate that.

I think the main problem here is the disconnect between what people are seeing in their VR headset vs. what they should be experiencing/feeling; a bit of buffer is acceptable, indeed wanted, but to the point where the whole cockpit violently shakes is a little nauseating.

I think this is even more the case as most PCs aren’t able to render above 40/45fps which means when the (relatively) low FPS is coupled with violent, fast and abrupt screen movements can cause discomfort

Understood. But in parts this is a limitation of VR itself, not so much of DCS and newer gen VR headsets should be less affected by that, and in parts this is also personal taste/and reaction to it. For example most guys I know who fly in VR do not seem to have an issue with it. Which of course does not mean I deprioritize your issue, at all. The question for us is only, how much effort is needed to implement something like that, while it still is merited by the number of ppl affected by it. I know this sounds super wrong, like saying, "bad luck, you are on your own with your issue". But if it takes away weeks of dev work on issues that are important to the majority, our hands are a little bit tied in that aspect. Trust me if I say that we are the kind of devs who take each one of you very seriously and would love to accommodate everyone, but unfortunately, as I said, we, too, can easily run into limits what we can do and what we can't. So we simply have to decide if the effort needed is within our possibilities - according to the "scope of the issue". Again, I very much hope that makes sense. I really hate to write disappointing answers to you guys, in the end we'd love for everyone to get it just like they want it, but unfortunately it is not always realistic.

Thank you for understanding. And as I said, we will definitely think about it.

Options are nice, esp given this isn't a real F14 we're in.

Having said that, I've gotten to where I depend on the feedback this (along with the sound) gives - and I find myself wishing other acft did this more. At first I was kinda like, "ohhh, what the heck is that!". But I'm pretty sure I would have the same reaction in a _real_ Tomcat (probably letting go of the stick like a hot potato - I don't have a FFB joystick).

Thusly...I'm now 'trained' to the feedback. Just wish my haptic device gave me a bit more 'kick'with this variable. But that's another software arena.

VR forever

J

 

Thank you for understanding. And as I said, we will definitely think about it.

:thumbup:

Even if this goes nowhere, thanks for being transparent! :)

Options are nice, esp given this isn't a real F14 we're in.

 

Having said that, I've gotten to where I depend on the feedback this (along with the sound) gives - and I find myself wishing other acft did this more. At first I was kinda like, "ohhh, what the heck is that!". But I'm pretty sure I would have the same reaction in a _real_ Tomcat (probably letting go of the stick like a hot potato - I don't have a FFB joystick).

 

Thusly...I'm now 'trained' to the feedback. Just wish my haptic device gave me a bit more 'kick'with this variable. But that's another software arena.

 

VR forever

J

during development we worked closely together with simshaker to make it available and feelable in buttkicker and so on. It is really a great addition that gives you even more tactile and haptic feedback. You can literally fly it from under your a.. :)

What you are refering to is most likely the mach transition buffet, if you say in level flight, that happens shortly before you break the sound barrier.

 

Thanks for your input and views on the subject, totally understand. I am aware of the buffet at the mach transition, and I try to avoid this area of light for prolonged periods of time for the reasons stated. It just seems the 'band' for the movement of the cockpit is very wide around the 'triggers' if you know what I mean. It is very difficult in normal flying to not be in a zone where the cockpit is jiggling around to some extent, and it seems to always be moving.

If you have ever experienced the Rift/Rift S when it had issues with tracking quality etc. leading to constant minor image movement/jitter then you will know what I am talking about - it can be quite unsettling.

But I understand your reasoning, and hey it is your aircraft so you will program it however you like, the fidelity of the aircraft is great.

It isn't the end of the world and I will just have to deal with it, it is just a shame that the reasons to not fly my favourite aircraft in DCS keep mounting.

it is just a shame that the reasons to not fly my favourite aircraft in DCS keep mounting.

This is something that saddens me to hear very much of course. It is extremely important to us that you all can enjoy the tomcat, and like I said, I hear you, and we will look into it, I just can't promise it (and thus recommend to manage expectations).

Please tell me your other reasons, I am sure some are known to me and/or being currently worked on, but I am still very curious and would like to see if we might not have missed anything or what your general input is on this. We surely want you to fly your favourite aircraft, of course. Thanks.

Unfortunately the scope of this thread is not limited to mach transition, but instead, covers every moment where the cockpit shakes like during catapult takeoffs or high AoA.

Instead of seeing an airframe shaking realistically it looks like there's a 9.1 magnitude earthquake happening in the cockpit. Hence why I would like to have a slider to be able to tone it down.

The Mig-21 and Mi-8 both have such a feature and I'm sure this would be pretty quick to implement.

Anyway, thank you IronMike for taking the time to read and respond to this thread. I feel like Heatblur is always trying to achieve the best for their customers and this comes as a proof of that.

Unfortunately the scope of this thread is not limited to mach transition, but instead, covers every moment where the cockpit shakes like during catapult takeoffs or high AoA.

 

Instead of seeing an airframe shaking realistically it looks like there's a 9.1 magnitude earthquake happening in the cockpit. Hence why I would like to have a slider to be able to tone it down.

 

The Mig-21 and Mi-8 both have such a feature and I'm sure this would be pretty quick to implement.

 

Anyway, thank you IronMike for taking the time to read and respond to this thread. I feel like Heatblur is always trying to achieve the best for their customers and this comes as a proof of that.

Thank you for your kind words, Nooch. We try at least, unfortunately we cannot always achieve it. As for how easy it seems and how much work it then really is, is not as straight forward as it seems. Now, I most certainly do not want to talk down the MiG21 or Mi8 flight model, they are great. But at the same time they are not quite as complex as the Tomcat's, I can say that with most certainty for the MiG21 as ofc before the split, the MiG21 was also created in parts by our HB guys. The scope of what is affected by it, is far far greater in the Tomcat, which makes changes to the FM far more complex. This is why it becomes a time issue, unfortunately the most limiting factor in development. The will to accommodate you guys is always there. But sometimes we have to make tough decisions: do we spend the time on this and then fall back with other features that have been actually promised or not? This is what in the end will decide whether we will offer it or not, but as I said: we will look into it, see if it is feasible and at least try. I just want to be careful, so that you are not disappointed then, if it wasn't possible for us to do it. I hope that makes sense. Thank you again for understanding.

IN grim reapers very recent review he discusses the shake. Its suddenness and also the lack of any sounds from the plane. I cant hear the burners. I cant hear my speed or aoa. Cant get a feel for the plane at all. Cockpit going nuts ,, well it might be realistic but I dont find it immersive. I really wanted to love this plane. But in the current version I dont and Im just not flying it now :(

I cant help but think that there could be more indications as to what the plane is doing other than the 2 states of 1 everything ok and 2 shaking like a maniac. lol. As its still early access Im hoping this isnt the way its going to stay :)