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Old 07-06-2018, 09:45 PM   #21
Rogue Trooper
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Originally Posted by Crash View Post
I like the SA342 very much. In VR it is awsome.


But there is one thing in FM i can´t explain to myself:


If Speed is higher than 75-80 km/h and i push the Rudder full left or full right, it feels the Tail is smashing at a buffer. It´s a hard and fixed pointed bumper. (Not real, but it feels so) No matter if the Gyro+AP is on or off.



Can anyone explain this to me or just confirm this?

Once you start to exceed 70 or 80 Km/h the massive tail fin surface area plus tail boom directional fins start to take authority on directional flight. One of the fenestron design strengths comes from its ability to reduce tail rotor engine drain to almost nought in forward flight, this leaves all power for the main rotors.


Any fenestron design you look at has a massive tail fin surface area and this is simply a benefit of an aerodynamic tail rotor!


You are simply fighting a very strong wind vain once a certain speed is achieved!

Last edited by Rogue Trooper; 07-06-2018 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 07-06-2018, 10:14 PM   #22
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If you compare the tail fin of a Huey or the hind.
Hit F2 and get a good side view...... the tail fins are tiny in proportion to the body of the machine, do you see this too or is it just me?
The tail fin of the Gazelle is massive in proportion to the whole machine.

This tail fin and the boom "vertical fins" has a massive effect through every aspect of flight. You turn left then there is a whole hunk a aerodynamic tail fin that needs to follow.... and it dictates a line of travel.


This thing is the light weight sports car of the chopper world!

Last edited by Rogue Trooper; 07-07-2018 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 07-07-2018, 12:41 AM   #23
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This thing is the light weight sports car of the chopper world!
Yeah, now it is. A year ago it was an underpowered VW Beetle from the 60s.
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Old 07-07-2018, 01:16 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Rogue Trooper View Post
Once you start to exceed 70 or 80 Km/h the massive tail fin surface area plus tail boom directional fins start to take authority on directional flight. One of the fenestron design strengths comes from its ability to reduce tail rotor engine drain to almost nought in forward flight, this leaves all power for the main rotors.


Any fenestron design you look at has a massive tail fin surface area and this is simply a benefit of an aerodynamic tail rotor!


You are simply fighting a very strong wind vain once a certain speed is achieved!
Yes it makes going from forward flight and and turning the aircraft to fly backwards a tad more work than the others but doable none the less.
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Old 07-07-2018, 01:40 AM   #25
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Yeah, now it is. A year ago it was an underpowered VW Beetle from the 60s.


She always had the pedigree and always behaved so... in fact the old machine required a solid chunk of work to get a corner level and straight and once mastered she was a machine of speed and intent......
I gotta get used to the new easy model.... but she reacts quick and that is all I need!


She is still underpowered in hot and High conditions..... a fellas gotta think ahead and work hard in this weaponized chopper.... as it should be.


No Chopper has this girls ability to snipe undetected, the tiger must be fabulous! Really really fabulous!

Last edited by Rogue Trooper; 07-07-2018 at 01:51 AM.
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Old 07-07-2018, 05:55 AM   #26
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Which could indicate that the Huey also isn't perfect, doesn't necessarily prove that the Gazelle is correct. Surely someone's feedback based on real experience is worth listening to? We all stand to benefit if we can get to the bottom of what's going on with the flight model.
Oh I listen very carefully. Sometimes it seems to me that a part of the community thinks that the military pilots (working with the developers) are not worth to be heard.

Since everybody can have an own opinion here is mine: I will put more faith into the developers word that several actual Gazelle pilots affirmed a large part of the FM than to thrust one or two persons (who are unknown to me) saying they are RL pilots (which I cant check) flying helicopters of different types. And please don't tell me that everything from Airbus helicopters flies the same way. Even the BK117 and the C2 version (EC145) show some different behaviour.
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Last edited by FSKRipper; 07-07-2018 at 06:05 AM.
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Old 07-07-2018, 08:22 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Rogue Trooper View Post
Once you start to exceed 70 or 80 Km/h the massive tail fin surface area plus tail boom directional fins start to take authority on directional flight. One of the fenestron design strengths comes from its ability to reduce tail rotor engine drain to almost nought in forward flight, this leaves all power for the main rotors.


Any fenestron design you look at has a massive tail fin surface area and this is simply a benefit of an aerodynamic tail rotor!


You are simply fighting a very strong wind vain once a certain speed is achieved!

Thank you Rogue Trooper for your explanation. I never flew a helicopter, but i think the hard stop of the tail could be a much more smooth. Maybe the FM could need a little bit of finetuning in this sectioon. Just a feeling. Fly straight above 90 km/h and hit the Rudder full left and then full right. First the tail will turn right ...smashing against a invisible wall...
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Last edited by Crash; 07-07-2018 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 07-07-2018, 09:40 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by FSKRipper View Post
You can do the same crazy stuff in the Huey
Don't tell lies.
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Old 07-07-2018, 09:52 AM   #29
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Don't tell lies.
I don't have to… look at my file.

Could you explain to me why your FuelFlow went to 0,0 3 seconds before you hit the ground?


Edit: Before you complain the file is too old, here is a fresh one from 5 minutes ago. Quick and dirty but sums it up. Recovery in less than 20ft after adding full collective. I don't think we need to continue to compare the FM's. Neither of us will be happy and some people will loose their believe in the UH-1.
Attached Files
File Type: zip TacviewHueyreccover.zip (8.0 KB, 5 views)
File Type: zip Tacview-20180707-122909-DCS.zip (25.5 KB, 4 views)
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Last edited by FSKRipper; 07-07-2018 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 07-07-2018, 11:02 AM   #30
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See I know what you're doing in such a descent. Tell me, do you let the rotor overspeed? (ps. I already know the answer because of the RoD).


And fyi, look back, I never said the huey FM was perfect. I quite clearly stated the opposite. But not loading the blades and let the rotor overspeed is outside any normal flight parameter anyway and it avoids vrs as a whole because you have to load the disk to just be able to get into vrs. And yes apparently you can get out of such a descent that way and it clearly shows another mistake in the FM.


You can test the mistakes in the huey FM in much simpler ways. Just be glad the gazelle doesn't simulate ground resonance (that I know off).

The gazelle can't get into vrs. Telling me it can't be done irl is bullshit because the helicopter still adheares to the same rules of physics, unless you say it's french, you might have a point there, they're quite special.


But if you load the helicopter in a 6000ft/min RoD straight(ish) down and you load it just a little bit. The disk simply stalls out. I don't know the exact RoD needed in the gazelle irl but I'm quite sure why the advisors to poly say they have never encountered vrs is because they're trained to avoid that whole situation in any case.


But if you don't believe me on the VRS. I suggest you take the word of mr Wagtendonk. He has a book called 'Principles of Helicopter Flight' it's an interesting read and it's mandatory for all my students because it's so much better then the other books publically available that I know off.
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