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Old 07-21-2018, 10:18 AM   #1
dburne
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Default Question on amount of axis deflection [RESOLVED]

Hey gang,

Have had my new Gunfighter Pro with MCG Pro grip up and running now for 2 weeks. Have been loving this stick and grip, spent a fair amount of time tweaking and tuning to get the best feel for my preference. Have taken it apart and put back together several times. I pretty much have it where I want it now. I also have logged several hours now flying with the stick, it really is a great stick and oh so smooth.

I have a question for other Gunfighter Pro with Extension users. I would note my Gunfighter base is a Mk I . I have noticed now my stick deflection in the roll axis is not identical on left and right side. My deflection is shorter on the left side, than on the right side. When measuring at the top collar of the extension tube, I have app 3" of throw to the right versus app 2" of throw to the left. It was obvious to me yesterday that it was different just by feel. Not sure why I did not notice this before.

Now this is no big deal, obviously calibration takes care of this. Perhaps it has been this way all along and I just really noticed it yesterday. I don't think it is the cam loading mentioned here https://vkbcontrollers.com/?faq=what-is-cam-loading, as the stick appears to be straight up and down without any lean. Pitch axis seems to be the same amount in each direction.

Just curious if others have similar, or if I maybe could have done something to cause this?
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Last edited by dburne; 07-22-2018 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 07-21-2018, 04:02 PM   #2
zhukov032186
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I just measured, albeit crudely, and I believe mine is the same either direction. I have approximately 6" of throw across the top (I have the 8" VKB extension). Now, I have slightly less resistance on the roll axis than the pitch axis, but that's because of the clutches, I need to go back in and readjust them. I don't think the actual travel range is different left to right though. -edit Mine is a Gunfighter MkII
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Old 07-21-2018, 04:21 PM   #3
dburne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhukov032186 View Post
I just measured, albeit crudely, and I believe mine is the same either direction. I have approximately 6" of throw across the top (I have the 8" VKB extension). Now, I have slightly less resistance on the roll axis than the pitch axis, but that's because of the clutches, I need to go back in and readjust them. I don't think the actual travel range is different left to right though. -edit Mine is a Gunfighter MkII
Interesting, ok thanks for the info.
I was measuring at the top collar of the extension tube.
And as mentioned I can tell it even without measuring which is what got me curious to measure it.

In my case I have less resistance on the pitch axis rather than roll. I have a little clutch on the roll though , as I like being able to feel when it is centered. I can't put any clutch on pitch, I have a small area of dead space in middle of pitch, it will return to exact center without clutch, with a little clutch there is an area of play in the middle and stick does not go to exact center like the roll does. Thinking it might be cam related, I even swapped the cams with each other - but still remained the same. I was thinking it might have to do with the offset of the extension tube where there is more weight behind the stick center.
I would also note mine is a Mk I gimbal.

I have #50 and #20 springs on both axis, I could probably try #50 and #30 just on pitch but I have had this thing apart so many times, I am enjoying just flying for now.

This is not a complaint on my end, just an observation and a little of my OCD coming out in me. I have now logged several hours in with this setup and am enjoying it very much.
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Last edited by dburne; 07-21-2018 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dburne View Post
I have #50 and #20 springs on both axis, I could probably try #50 and #30 just on pitch but I have had this thing apart so many times, I am enjoying just flying for now.
Springs are going to have nothing at all to do with it. The cams also likely have nothing to do with it.

Just for shits and giggles I very imprecisely measured my Gladiator. From the thumb button it moves about 2 1/8 inches left and right. That is about 5 inches above the stick base.

Considering you are using an extension and only measure 2 inches on one side, which is the same as my non-extended gladiator at 5 inches, and zhukov032186 reports 6 inches (guessing he means total, making it 3 inches each way)... you have a physical obstruction. Either you miss-assembled it or it is hitting something else. I don't know about the Gunfighter gimbal, but the Gladiator Pro's gimbal hits metal stops at maximum travel, it has nothing to do with the cam. All the cam does is regulate the amount of force the spring transmits, there is no "stopper" on the cam. If you somehow came past the limit of the cam, the bearing would just roll off the end, then it would be stuck. On the side where the cam is bolted, it would probably just become increasingly harder as it got closer to the bolt, there would be no sudden stop.

My guess is you installed something backwards, have a screw/bolt or wiring obstructing internally, or wherever you have your stick mounted the shaft is probably hitting something.
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Last edited by Sideslip; 07-21-2018 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:08 PM   #5
dburne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideslip View Post
Springs are going to have nothing at all to do with it. The cams also likely have nothing to do with it.

Just for shits and giggles I very imprecisely measured my Gladiator. From the thumb button it moves about 2 1/8 inches left and right. That is about 5 inches above the stick base.

Considering you are using an extension and only measure 2 inches on one side, which is the same as my non-extended gladiator at 5 inches, and zhukov032186 reports 6 inches (guessing he means total, making it 3 inches each way)... you have a physical obstruction. Either you miss-assembled it or it is hitting something else. I don't know about the Gunfighter gimbal, but the Gladiator Pro's gimbal hits metal stops at maximum travel, it has nothing to do with the cam. All the cam does is regulate the amount of force the spring transmits, there is no "stopper" on the cam. If you somehow came past the limit of the cam, the bearing would just roll off the end, then it would be stuck. On the side where the cam is bolted, it would probably just become increasingly harder as it got closer to the bolt, there would be no sudden stop.

My guess is you installed something backwards, have a screw/bolt or wiring obstructing internally, or wherever you have your stick mounted the shaft is probably hitting something.

Your mixing up a couple of different things, probably my fault as I mentioned the second thing in this same thread. And that was in relation to the difference in softness around center on the pitch axis versus the roll axis. That is what I was referring to when I mentioned swapping the cams, not the physical limits of the stick itself. See my first post where I am talking about the physical limits.

I assure you nothing is mixed up with the gimbal install, would be rather hard to mix that up as it is such a simple gimbal to take in and out.
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Last edited by dburne; 07-21-2018 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 07-21-2018, 11:06 PM   #6
zhukov032186
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@sideslip
I was measuring across the top of the stick, from the center point just right of the top hat. At this height, the stick deflects 6'' either direction. It's easier to see discrepancies out there. He's saying an inch difference at the base, out where I'm measuring it would probably translate to several inches and be extremely hard to avoid noticing, even if my methods were imprecise.
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Old 07-21-2018, 11:14 PM   #7
dburne
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Ok so I took it apart, first the screw, brass nut and spring for the clutch damper adjustment on the pitch fell out - can't find the little nut so I just left it out.
Thinking that might have contributed I put it back together and no, still the same.

So I took bottom off and left extension and grip on and moved it around whilst viewing from underneath. It appears the roll cam screw when the stick is moved left is hitting the round tube( where the mounting holes mount from the bottom, preventing the stick from going the same amount of deflection to the left as it does to the right. It is hitting nothing when deflected full right.

I have attached a pic, showing that screw and where it is centered, and underneath you can see the tube that it ends up hitting when it is moved full left.

Edit: hmm I am thinking that small washer on the inside of the pitch cam might have should have been on the other side with the nut. The cam appears to be slightly crooked. Thought when I swapped cams I put them exact as they came off... but it was really after that I first started noticing the difference in travel between left and right. But then again that will not change the length of the cam screw so it would still hit it I guess.

Too late to mess any more with it, will have a fresh look tomorrow afternoon hopefully.
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Last edited by dburne; 07-21-2018 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:07 AM   #8
dburne
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So as careful as I thought I was, I am just about betting there is something I did not get quite exactly right in those washers and nuts when I put them back on. Cause really this difference in throw left versus right I would think I would have already noticed before, but it was only after swapping cams I think that I recall noticing it.

But dang if I can figure out what exactly it is, too tired now anyway. Will resume later and if I figure out what it was will certainly advise.
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:17 AM   #9
dburne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhukov032186 View Post
@sideslip
I was measuring across the top of the stick, from the center point just right of the top hat. At this height, the stick deflects 6'' either direction. It's easier to see discrepancies out there. He's saying an inch difference at the base, out where I'm measuring it would probably translate to several inches and be extremely hard to avoid noticing, even if my methods were imprecise.
I was measuring form the top of the extension tube. Not a precise measurement, but pretty close.
Noticed it first by feel, which prompted me to try and get a measurement to compare.
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:01 AM   #10
dburne
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I contacted rrhode to see if he had a pic of the gimbal assembly, and he kindly sent me one showing the proper cam screw installation. Once I saw that and compared to my gimbal it became obvious.

Apparently my dumb butt managed to get the cam screw backwards on the pitch axis when I swapped cams, therefore instead of just a screw head facing the gimbal casing, I had the screw protruding through with a nut facing the gimbal casing - that is what is hitting when I move the X axis to the left and limiting travel.

Won't get a chance to get in there and correct that till later this afternoon, but am very confident that is going to take care of it. Will advise.

Thanks for the feedback gang, once again for me the problem was on my end!

What I should have done when I swapped those cams, was take a picture of both of them prior to removing to insure I get those screws, washers, and nuts back in properly rather than relying on my failing memory.

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Last edited by dburne; 07-22-2018 at 12:01 PM.
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